"..perhaps you the BEST choice..."
actually nobody would be better than you as people from your cult have excelled in 'screwing" the entire world....so you have the pleasure sir !
shiraz.virani wrote:
brother pardesi said:
Quote:
Ismailis are encouraged to pay 12.5% of whatever they earn every month after taxes, at least that is my understanding. Am I being taken to the cleaners by the Mukhi?
again i agree with you !
So what is it?
Quote:
In my search I found the following on a bunch of Islamic websites:
Paying zakat is Fard (compulsory). The Qur'an says that only those who pay zakat are in the "brotherhood of faith".
In light of the above statement, are the poor who are not able to pay zakat out of the fold of Islam?
shiraz.virani wrote:
if you are poor and have some money on you but no debt then it is your right to give zakat....but again if you're in debt our imam [as] does not want you to take a loan and pay zakat because no imam[as], rasool[saw] or allah[swt] wants its momins to bear that burden
hope i answered your question brother
I know I am asking too many questions here but they are important for me. Are you saying that if I am in debt I should pay those off before any dasond becomes due on me? Would my non-payment of dasond be forgiven? In the ginans of our pirs they have not mentioned anything like this. As a matter of fact they have emphasised on payment of dasond by every believing momin, regardless of financial situation.
how about you downgrading the holy quran ????"Our brothers and sisters"? you sound like a hypocrite here ? you denigrate our Imam and now you are acting coy?
win ??? so are you having a debate with me just to win ??just to show the shallow side of your belief ? the reason why iam having a debate with you it to learn ....learn about different interpretations and viewsdo you really want to have a debate with me pal? then lets move away from this forum...put your email address on the table and I will put mine...and then it is you and me and let the better person win...lets not bother others here...I am ready to take you on a one to one basis...outside this forum so we do not disrespect the admin...let me know - then we can have some fun together !
"...if i have a debate with you, you'll pee in your panties..."
Just trying to keep your pride huh? put your email address on the table and I will do so and lets see who falters?
don't lie ! I have NOT downgraded the quran ! I have certainly spoken about the texts circulating and the flaws they have and that is a fair thing to do...i have shown so many references now from non-muslims and muslims alike to support my argument ....you are simply barking and accusing and trying to put words in people's mouth and misleading....suddenly you feel inclined to quote the firman to continue with your bollywood acting....Imam is NOT divine you said so...but what he say is gospel huh? whom are you fooling? Your Imam is stopping you from taking me on? you coward ! Imam does not like cowards like you around him....go get lost man....it will take you another life time to make me pee !
This was because in all your posts your emphasis was on 2.5% zakat paid yearly as the only right thing to do, although you never actually said that but you seemed to support the idea as opposed to the Ismaili tradition.shiraz.virani wrote:
as per ismailism , we dont pay it yearly but monthly....and yes 10% belong to imam and 2.5% is peers hak and our present imam is shah/pir = 12.5%
and about you taken to the cleaners by mukhi, iam sorry but i couldnt understand what you trying to say....can you please elaborate brother ?
I beg to disagree. Zakat is purification of your earnings and in hope for abundance (barakat) and therefore should be paid on every penny you earn. Remember you quoted an ayat of Quran where Allah says he will provide from his bounty to those who are poor. And this is exactly why we must pay dasond/zakat before worrying about our debts.....what i said was if you have any karz..after paying that if you have a very limited money with runs your house then as per me you are not bound to pay zakat....imam doesnt force you to ! ...i know some brother of our faith who take loan and pay dasond, i would not suggest them to do so because they will keep on taking loan and so their karz would never get over with.
are you getting my point brother ?
Unfortunately, I and the vast majority of Ismailis atleast do not subscribe to this. Like you, we have paid allegiance to the Imam and we pay the 12.5% of our income every month. You are entitled to your conclusions and act accordingly.but brother if after clearing all your debts and house expenses, if you still have some cash then you are bound to pay dasond.
Imam is not hungry for money, nor is his livelihood dependent upon anyone paying dasond/zakat. You rightly said that dasond is to purify our money and make it halal - then why not make the whole of our income, which we use, pure and halal rather than only the part that is left after paying our debts and household expenses. If one does not make any money at all then obviously there is no dasond due in terms of money. But that person is making a living somehow regardless of any monetary income. It is not a burden, it is for Allah's pleasure so He can purify our income that we use to feed our families and return it to us multiplied in the form of barakat (growth).i dont think its a farz regardless of your position...do you think our imam is hungry for money ??? the reason why we give dasond is to purify our money....make it halal.....but what if you are not making any money at all !!!
Then let it be. We should still pay dasond/zakat out of our income before we do anything with it and believe in Allah to make whatever is left abundant enough. My personal experience says that.like what if all your money goes is debt repayment and other misc. yet important expenses ?
I respect your opinion. One thing that does not make sense is that you said all the above yet you also said that you pay 12.5% every month to the Shah Pir. So why not practice what you preach or why preach what you dont practice?brother again lemme tell you that this is only my belief, i does not represent any school of thought .
the emphasis was neither on 2.5% or 12.5% brother, the emphasis was on the importance as to pay it monthly or yearly.....and i said monthly !shiraz.virani wrote:
as per ismailism , we dont pay it yearly but monthly....and yes 10% belong to imam and 2.5% is peers hak and our present imam is shah/pir = 12.5%
and about you taken to the cleaners by mukhi, iam sorry but i couldnt understand what you trying to say....can you please elaborate brother ?
This was because in all your posts your emphasis was on 2.5% zakat paid yearly as the only right thing to do, although you never actually said that but you seemed to support the idea as opposed to the Ismaili tradition.
again as i said brother my views does not belong to any sect...its just my views.....i think you misunderstood me, what i was saying was what if i have a debt ? should I have to take a loan and pay dasond ???Quote:
....what i said was if you have any karz..after paying that if you have a very limited money with runs your house then as per me you are not bound to pay zakat....imam doesnt force you to ! ...i know some brother of our faith who take loan and pay dasond, i would not suggest them to do so because they will keep on taking loan and so their karz would never get over with.
are you getting my point brother ?
I beg to disagree. Zakat is purification of your earnings and in hope for abundance (barakat) and therefore should be paid on every penny you earn. Remember you quoted an ayat of Quran where Allah says he will provide from his bounty to those who are poor. And this is exactly why we must pay dasond/zakat before worrying about our debts.
exactly ! as per my belief i think if iam in debt and have 0.00 in savings then i dont think i will take a loan to pay my dasond, because that money my brother i not halal ! [again this is my belief]Quote:
but brother if after clearing all your debts and house expenses, if you still have some cash then you are bound to pay dasond.
Unfortunately, I and the vast majority of Ismailis atleast do not subscribe to this. Like you, we have paid allegiance to the Imam and we pay the 12.5% of our income every month. You are entitled to your conclusions and act accordingly.
but brother how are you going to make it halal ??? the dasond is paid after you take our all your expenses....and i am pretty sure about this !!Quote:
i dont think its a farz regardless of your position...do you think our imam is hungry for money ??? the reason why we give dasond is to purify our money....make it halal.....but what if you are not making any money at all !!!
Imam is not hungry for money, nor is his livelihood dependent upon anyone paying dasond/zakat. You rightly said that dasond is to purify our money and make it halal - then why not make the whole of our income, which we use, pure and halal rather than only the part that is left after paying our debts and household expenses. If one does not make any money at all then obviously there is no dasond due in terms of money. But that person is making a living somehow regardless of any monetary income. It is not a burden, it is for Allah's pleasure so He can purify our income that we use to feed our families and return it to us multiplied in the form of barakat (growth).
i completely disagree with you on this brother....as i said earlier dasond is paid on NET INCOME and not GROSS !!!Quote:
like what if all your money goes is debt repayment and other misc. yet important expenses ?
Then let it be. We should still pay dasond/zakat out of our income before we do anything with it and believe in Allah to make whatever is left abundant enough. My personal experience says that.
Quote:
brother again lemme tell you that this is only my belief, i does not represent any school of thought .
I respect your opinion. One thing that does not make sense is that you said all the above yet you also said that you pay 12.5% every month to the Shah Pir. So why not practice what you preach or why preach what you dont practice?
I don't know what ismailism you follow - but in my form - you pay dasondh first before paying anyone else. Dasondh is Male Wajab - (don't know what that means)...shiraz.virani wrote:brother virani said :
the emphasis was neither on 2.5% or 12.5% brother, the emphasis was on the importance as to pay it monthly or yearly.....and i said monthly !shiraz.virani wrote:
as per ismailism , we dont pay it yearly but monthly....and yes 10% belong to imam and 2.5% is peers hak and our present imam is shah/pir = 12.5%
and about you taken to the cleaners by mukhi, iam sorry but i couldnt understand what you trying to say....can you please elaborate brother ?
This was because in all your posts your emphasis was on 2.5% zakat paid yearly as the only right thing to do, although you never actually said that but you seemed to support the idea as opposed to the Ismaili tradition.
again as i said brother my views does not belong to any sect...its just my views.....i think you misunderstood me, what i was saying was what if i have a debt ? should I have to take a loan and pay dasond ???Quote:
....what i said was if you have any karz..after paying that if you have a very limited money with runs your house then as per me you are not bound to pay zakat....imam doesnt force you to ! ...i know some brother of our faith who take loan and pay dasond, i would not suggest them to do so because they will keep on taking loan and so their karz would never get over with.
are you getting my point brother ?
I beg to disagree. Zakat is purification of your earnings and in hope for abundance (barakat) and therefore should be paid on every penny you earn. Remember you quoted an ayat of Quran where Allah says he will provide from his bounty to those who are poor. And this is exactly why we must pay dasond/zakat before worrying about our debts.
yes and the bounty of allah[swt] does not necessarily mean money only !!!! it can be anything ! for eg: food[given by allah[swt] through a person.
exactly ! as per my belief i think if iam in debt and have 0.00 in savings then i dont think i will take a loan to pay my dasond, because that money my brother i not halal ! [again this is my belief]Quote:
but brother if after clearing all your debts and house expenses, if you still have some cash then you are bound to pay dasond.
Unfortunately, I and the vast majority of Ismailis atleast do not subscribe to this. Like you, we have paid allegiance to the Imam and we pay the 12.5% of our income every month. You are entitled to your conclusions and act accordingly.
but brother how are you going to make it halal ??? the dasond is paid after you take our all your expenses....and i am pretty sure about this !!Quote:
i dont think its a farz regardless of your position...do you think our imam is hungry for money ??? the reason why we give dasond is to purify our money....make it halal.....but what if you are not making any money at all !!!
Imam is not hungry for money, nor is his livelihood dependent upon anyone paying dasond/zakat. You rightly said that dasond is to purify our money and make it halal - then why not make the whole of our income, which we use, pure and halal rather than only the part that is left after paying our debts and household expenses. If one does not make any money at all then obviously there is no dasond due in terms of money. But that person is making a living somehow regardless of any monetary income. It is not a burden, it is for Allah's pleasure so He can purify our income that we use to feed our families and return it to us multiplied in the form of barakat (growth).
you can even ask shamsB or brother meherali on this site
dasond is paid after excluding all the expenses ! what if my expenses are more than what i earn ????
thats my point !!
i completely disagree with you on this brother....as i said earlier dasond is paid on NET INCOME and not GROSS !!!Quote:
like what if all your money goes is debt repayment and other misc. yet important expenses ?
Then let it be. We should still pay dasond/zakat out of our income before we do anything with it and believe in Allah to make whatever is left abundant enough. My personal experience says that.
Quote:
brother again lemme tell you that this is only my belief, i does not represent any school of thought .
I respect your opinion. One thing that does not make sense is that you said all the above yet you also said that you pay 12.5% every month to the Shah Pir. So why not practice what you preach or why preach what you dont practice?
brother iam teaching only what iam practising....i pay my dasond on NET INCOME....income that is left after excluding all the expenses and shukhar mawla i do that time to time !
hope i answered your question brother
salam
yaa ali madad
The distinction between outer and inner meanings of Qur'án verses led to another conclusion about the Qur'án which is wholly unique to Shí'ism as a whole : not only are the Imams the only possessors of the original Qur'án but, more, they are the only ones capable of elucidating its inner, and hence its real, meanings.
1 Ta Haa.Further, since one who does not benefit from an Imam's elucidation can in no way understand the text, he or she can not be said to have understood it at all....and that is your setback as you have overlooked the fact that all Sh'ias consider Imams of Ahl al Bayt as "infallible" based on the premise that they have been purified to touch the recitations, apart from also being the guardians.
psst psst !!!!.....the debate is on the authenticity of hadiths so please kindly stay on the topic !!The Qur'án for you thus is "silent" as you denigrate the Imam and then you give everyone the lie of the land...whereas the quran the ismailis have is vibrant and alive and takes us to the heights of ecstasy whilst you are scratching your groins and fondling your beards...
evidence ??The Imam, on the other hand, as the bearer of the original text and its sole authorized interpreter, is said to be the "speaking" Qur'án.
(and so the fictious claim that Ismailis are borrowing from Uthman's text is at best felicitous ..rather it is the other way around ....have shown tons of evidence plus references and you are still in self denial....)
again i agree with sister znanwalla that no one knows the real meaning of holy verses except allah[swt] and imam[as]....but what i dont agree is holy quran is incomplete !As further proof of this, the Shí'ís offer the following verse, Qur'án 3:7: "...No one knows its [the Qur'án's] true meanings except God, and those who are firmly grounded in knowledge."[51] The last part of this is taken to mean the Imams. Thus, only God and the Imams can understand and explain the book.
."... On the day when the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women will say unto those who believe: Look on us that we may borrow from your light! it will be said: Go back and seek for light ! Then there will separate them a wall wherein is a gate, the inner side whereof containeth Mercy, while the outer side thereof is toward the doom...".
Virani your boastfulness makes me laugh !!!
, lets just leave who is following the light and wisdom and who is running behind light without knowing no wisdom can you please give me the surah and ayyat number @ above verse ?"O Folk! Verily Allah has appointed him to be your Imam and ruler.
Obedience of him is obligatory for all Immigrants (Muhajirin) and
Helpers (Ansar) and those who follow them in virtue, and on the dwellers of the cities and the nomads,the Arabs and the non-Arabs, the freeman and the slave,the young and the old,the great and the small,the WHITE and the black.... Let us continue with the theme...
sister the revelation used to come in his[saw] heart...and what is there to deny or be afraid of ??The Qur'án had been delivered from Gabriel as an oral text, and so it was the orally-transmitted, recited text that was considered the true Qur'án....do you deny this?
well sister since you are soooo educated lemme tell you this, in those days people did not had paper .....they used to write it on leaves/cloth/leather/bone and even stone !The community saw no immediate need to preserve it in writing and so show me if during 23 years of naboowat if the Prophet had embarked on it scompilation? No ! I ask you why did did he not do that?. ..surely he wasn't careless !
why would bolta quran assemble silent quran ,when as per your belief bolta quran is sufficient ???Following the Prophet's death, though, the community became engaged in wars in which many of the reciters were killed, and it became apparent to the rulers that parts of the Qur'án were in danger of being lost. ..so your ancestors became desperate...they had already rejected the actual quran Hazrat Ali brought to them...so now they were in a dilemma....just the way you are today...
Compiling Quran during the era of Abu Bakr al-Siddiq: Zayd Ibn Thabit gathered the Quran in one book. He was charged to do this by Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, according to an advice from Umar Ibn Al-Khattab. Its resource was the parts written by the Revelation scribes; so he gathered all of it in one book, the Holy Quran.Abú Bakr had a written text compiled to ensure that the Qur'án, heretofore only preserved orally, would still be preserved even should all of its memorizers die....he failed to do a complete job...it is reported that a goat even ate some of the parchments of his copy....Lo !
They scribed many copies of Quran, reflecting in their writing the different correct readings (Arabic accents) of it; excluding any incorrect one. It was not marked with dots or vowel points. Uthman kept a copy at Medina and sent the remaining copies to the various Islamic countries. This codification did not completely preclude any future variations, however, for his was a consonantal text only.Later, during the reign of 'Uthmán, it became evident to the community that there were an uncomfortable number of variations in the memorized texts, and so 'Uthmán began the process of compiling a single, authoritative version....so what religious authority, competency and knowledge did he have to do all this? you tell us please.
A canonical text was produced under his direction, and he ordered that all other, noncanonical, texts be burnt and destroyed..
and yet we recite our dua and even eid namaz from the so called skeleton of the textIts purpose was merely to preserve the skeleton of the text for the sake of preventing any future textual corruption, not to record the living Qur'án as such. ...now this are historical facts which the historians and muslims philologist recognize.
this has already been taken care of @ abovePartly for this reason, and largely because the science of Arabic orthography was still primitive, variations remained possible.
The skeletal 'Uthmánic text either contained limited vowel markings or none at all, and the shapes of several consonants were similar, both of which allowed for a great variety of differences in meaning.
Though some of these differences were usually minor, a few changes could have great ramifications.
For example, depending on tone, the word for "exalted," "'alí," could be taken either to be a simple adjective, or to refer to a divine endorsement of the caliphate of 'Alí!
From all of these variations, a limited number were selected and canonized in the tenth century....so there is no guarantee that it is free of errors or omission pal...
it is only because even they were as nosey as you are ! even they wanted the term exalted to be used as "ali" instead...that way they could say look the verse is talking about imam ali....So today who has the real quran? the answer is so obvious and I don't want to break your sullied heart ! and so who can borrow from whom? again the answer is so logical except for those in self denial...now can the blind and the seeing be equal? nah ! and so can you compare wasps against the caterpillars?
There is no doubt that there was a variety of readings of the text for, if nothing else, it was this very fact which motivated 'Uthmán to canonize a single text in the first place.
Many Muslims who were dissatisfied with the Umayyad rule were also dissatisfied with 'Uthmán's text, especially the partisans of 'Alí.
ahhhh.....not again !!!It is also evident that 'Alíd objections to this recension were very early, for the Sunni faction found it necessary to invent early hadiths in which 'Alí was made to say that he accepted Uthmán's text........and that is what you are propagating here Virani pretending you are an ismaili....you are a coward !
ok so as per your belief speaking quran tried to assemble silent quran ....and as per your belief....speaking quran went to the people and gave silent quran to them but they refused ....so speaking quran promised that people would never find silent quran again !The crucial factor in this issue, namely what the variant texts were and how much they varied, will most likely never be discovered as per hazrat Ali's dictate.
believe in imamat and respect the holy quran and insha allah you'll get hikmatThis ambiguity has allowed for what has proven to be the most heated debate in scholarship of the Shí'í Qur'án, both by Shí'ís and by Orientalists...and some of you are living in blissful ignorance in the 21st century....
Point taken. I kept thinking that you were actually emphasising the 2.5% as that is mostly what your posts talked about.shiraz.virani wrote:
the emphasis was neither on 2.5% or 12.5% brother, the emphasis was on the importance as to pay it monthly or yearly.....and i said monthly !
I agree. Allah's bounty encompasses everything imaginable. In my opinion one should give dasond on the food that Allah gives someone through another person and people in 1/4th do keep track of all the gifts and things that they receive from others and pay dasond on it as well.Quote:
again as i said brother my views does not belong to any sect...its just my views.....i think you misunderstood me, what i was saying was what if i have a debt ? should I have to take a loan and pay dasond ???
yes and the bounty of allah[swt] does not necessarily mean money only !!!! it can be anything ! for eg: food[given by allah[swt] through a person.
You are right. It should never come to taking out a loan to pay dasond. I have never heard of this but if you say you know few people who do that then well.... they should get their act together.exactly ! as per my belief i think if iam in debt and have 0.00 in savings then i dont think i will take a loan to pay my dasond, because that money my brother i not halal ! [again this is my belief]
Feedback from other members is welcomed. The purpose of paying Zakat/Dasond is purification of our income which makes it halal to consume and to get Allah's pleasure in the form of barakat (abundance). If you are going to pay your expenses first and then pay the dasond if there is any left then my brother only that part will be halal for your to consume and the part that you already spent becomes haram in that sense.but brother how are you going to make it halal ??? the dasond is paid after you take our all your expenses....and i am pretty sure about this !!
you can even ask shamsB or brother meherali on this site
dasond is paid after excluding all the expenses ! what if my expenses are more than what i earn ????
thats my point !!
I do not agree with you. I understand it is your personal view but is misleading other members on this board and inshallah we will get this clear for all of us.Quote:
like what if all your money goes is debt repayment and other misc. yet important expenses ?
Then let it be. We should still pay dasond/zakat out of our income before we do anything with it and believe in Allah to make whatever is left abundant enough. My personal experience says that.
i completely disagree with you on this brother....as i said earlier dasond is paid on NET INCOME and not GROSS !!!
You certainly have a right to your opinion and belief. This is why we debate and argue to get our point across and hope to learn from each other. I hope that other members on this forum will give their input so we can get this clarified for everybody including myself.
brother iam teaching only what iam practising....i pay my dasond on NET INCOME....income that is left after excluding all the expenses and shukhar mawla i do that time to time !
hope i answered your question brother
Âshâji dha(n)dho karvâ duniyâmâ(n)hê âvyâ
lêvâ âp didârji
nav pâ(n)ti tamê lainê châlo
dasmi narjinê âlo Hari ana(n)t
Oh Lord You have come to the world to earn your livelihood
and to take your spiritual vision
Take nine parts (from your earnings) and live from it
submit the tenth part to the Imaam
so brother why paying tax before dasond ??? doesnt that make it haram ???Feedback from other members is welcomed. The purpose of paying Zakat/Dasond is purification of our income which makes it halal to consume and to get Allah's pleasure in the form of barakat (abundance). If you are going to pay your expenses first and then pay the dasond if there is any left then my brother only that part will be halal for your to consume and the part that you already spent becomes haram in that sense.
Dasond is paid on your income after taxes. Ofcourse you will have that much less in the pot to spend on other expenses but this brings us back to the barakat we receive from Allah which makes the rest of our money abundant enough. It is a matter of belief. If you have belief, the miracle will happen.
:lolAnd there can only be one Imam at one and the same time, though there may be a silent one (samit), his successor, beside him."
- Farhad Daftary, The Ismailies: Their History and Doctrines, pp. 86
, I respect Farhad Daftary's views , but they are his views and 90% of em match mine , but....again the question arises , what is the need of silent quran when you have a speaking quran ?lol, again !! as usual sister look before you talk....if only imam[as] knows the real spiritual meaning then how come you're interpreting quran for us and saying ok look this is real and what shiraz.virani is saying is a lie"In Shii thought, the Imam's all-important spiritual function of interpreting the inner meaning of the revelations announced by the Prophet is known as tawil.
The term walayah, meaning devotion to the Imams, is sometimes also used in this sense.
No adequate equivalent exists in any of the Western languages for sense of the term walayah, adopted in modern times especially by (Henry) Corbin, but it may roughly be translated as 'initiation'.
According to the Shiis, the cycle of prophecy (dairat al-nubuwwah), representing the deliverance of new sacred laws by different prophets came to its end with the Prophet Muhammad; but then, there arose the permanent need for the initiatic function connected with explaining the secret meaning of the Islamic message.
And the person whose duty it is in every age to fulfill the function of tawil (or walayah), inseparable from the Imamate, is the rightful Imam.
It is through this function that the Imams become the awilya Allah, or the friends of Allah."
- Farhad Daftary, The Ismailies: Their History and Doctrines, pp. 87
"For each nabi (prophet), the walayah is the presupposition of his prophetic charisma, since without it there would be no grounds for seeing in him a manifestation of the Perfect Man.
It is by virtue of this walayah that his heir and successor, the Imam, may be regarded in his turn as a manifestation of the Perfect Man, and it is equally the intervention of the walayah which marks the difference between the Shiite and the Sunnite conception of the Imam."- Henry Corbin, Temple and Contemplation, pp. 62
Happy purring....
who is the enemy and who is not ,lets just leave that on allah[swt] alone....and yes !!! iam the enemy of those who degrade the holy quran..but my imam[as] himself is my inspiration who uses the noble quran to reach mass crowds and yes it is my imam who promotes pluralism as prescribed in quran [h.uthman'sImam Ali was finalizing the Book for the muslims to use, as per the authority and direction of the Prophet of Islam and not because of any ulterior motives or greed for wealth or position or caliphate that was usurped from him...please go and check who had buried the Holy Prophet whilst the so called companions had all abandoned the sacred body of the Prophet and had gone to Saqifa to nominate themselves for caliphate ?.......
Hazrat Ali's compilation was in the order it was revealed and with all the commentaries too as the Prophet was revealing to him and he was taking down the revelations on an ongoing basis and overtime - that is why the Prophet never embarked on any public compilation and the mere fact that there wasn't any paper at that time is an incompetent argument as they used "mushufs"....the argument that if Ali was the speaking quran why he also compiled is an irrelevant argument also ...it is like asking why the Imam is living and present and yet there is a "firman book" compiled for us ?
Virani, you are raising stupid questions...as for Imam Ali being a "speaking" quran, you should go and read history and the narrations and records about all the battles that carry with them chronicles of not only Ali's bravery, courage and chivalry but you will find that in one of the battles when the enemies of Islam raised the quran book on their swords and marched towards the muslims, they started to drop their swords and run away and Imam Ali at that point told them to listen to me ...I am the speaking quran"....maybe you don't even know about the incident where Angel Gabriel was loud in praise of Ali and said.." there is no braver youth than Ali, and no better sword than his Zulfikar..."
Moreover if you go through the teachings of the ismaili Imams, one will easily notice that every word they speak is full of wisdom and if one listens to their teachings, he will sit in wonderment because of their spiritual profundity and eloquence...
All Sh'ias believe that their Imams are infallible guides but Virani AKA as Curious AKA Venky plays with the words to fool you - he does not consider OUR Imam as being the Ahl al Bayt ...he means Aeisha when he says Ahl al Bayt....
This guy Virani was an Ismaili but is no longer one...that is why he able to know certain rites and rituals and sound credible....his proddings on dasond and how one should NOT give if he or she moving expenses, even if the expenses include costs of a lavish lifestyle, is a purposeful ploy to influence people not to pay the Imam - his attempts to emphasize on just the sadaqa is also deliberate and has a reasoning behind it - he has claimed on you tube that our seniors are neglected and that they should be given sadaqa and not to the Imam... and he has argued with his parents too who perhaps were devout ismailis and infact has in his skirmishes has claimed that his parents were blindly following Ismailism....
When he talks surresptiously about believing in the Ahl al Bayt, it is only Bibi Aeisha he means - not the Imams.
He wants you all to believe his systematic poisoning and covert behaviour - he is planting seeds of discord but is acting coy and wearing the garb of a sheep but is a fox.......we have already locked horns before and he knows what he can expect.
I have shown ample evidence from non-muslim and muslims academics and scholars alike about the history of the compilations of the texts - he tries to muddy the water and wants to ignore the facts as they stand...
The Egyptian Royal commission of experts and academics finally completed their own "copying" in 1924 ( how many many years after the prophet's death) and that too from the Uthmanic skeletel texts, as you all can see and yet Virani is trying to somehow justify all this hearsay conveyances and likes to twiddle his thumbs and calls me a "pussy" -
What I do observe is that rented honchos like Virani are desperate to grab at anything unauthentic to try and "disprove" the Ismaili Imamat using unauthentic accounts and propagation by the enemies of Ismailis in conspiracy with Maherally and they even masquerade as Ismailis ( not difficult for Khoja dissidents to do this )...
Frankly people like Virani have helped many strenthen their conviction and belief in the Aga Khan !
They have actually glorified Ismaili Islam and their Imam !...
Virani is anxious to quote the Imam's speeches and Holy Firmans excerpts to serve his own demented and satanic agenda and he conveys it as the "gospel" when it suits him, but in the same breath says the Imam is not divine or infallible and yet everyone knows Imamat is a divine institution and Imams are not elected by man but are appointed through Allah's divine command.....
"And We made them Imams guiding people by Our command and We revealed to them the doing of good and keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve" (21:73). ...
His use of expressions like "my brothers and sisters" and "Jamat" etc etc are just a ploy to mislead you all into believing he is a murid of the Imam - he is an enemy of OUR Imam !....
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