How can I be frustrated? apart from talking fromboth ends of your mouth, you are now showing your own ignorance also....you haven't answered my questions....you are simply dismissing what I am saying as being touchy feely....when did I say that the noble quran is a "fairy tale"? but we can only refer to the quran as revealed - you are mixing apples with oranges....you are trying to impose the translations and the narrations of scribes, like many others but which is not the same....I am trying to show you the inherent difficulty in doing the translations from the arabic sacreddotal langauge which is dense....you are unable to grasp what I am asking or what I am saying !
IMAM TABARI’S STRANGE CONFESSION:
“I am writing this book as I hear from the narrators. If anything sounds absurd, I should not be blamed or held accountable.
The responsibility of all blunders rests squarely on the shoulders of those who have narrated these stories to me.”
So, Tabari wrote nothing but hearsay. Mazhabi Dastanain Aur Un Ki Haqeeqat by Allama Habib-ur-Rahman Siddiqui Kandhalwi, Ar-Rahman Publishing Trust, Karachi
Tareekhil Umam Wal Mulook (The History of Nations and Kings) popularly called “The Mother of All Histories” is the first ever “History of Islam” written by ‘Imam’ Tabari (839-923 CE) at the junction of the third and fourth century AH.
He died in 310 AH, three centuries after the exalted Prophet. What were his sources? Not a scrap of paper!
“He told me this who heard it from him who heard it from her and she heard it from so and so,” and so on.
By compiling his 13 Volume History and his 30 Volume Exposition of the Quran under royal patronage, Tabari became the Super Imam.
The later historians until this day have persisted in following the trails of the Super Imam. Imam Zahri Wa Imam Tabari, Tasweer Ka Doosra Rukh by Muhaddith-ul-‘Asr Jaame’-ul-‘Uloom Hazrat Allama Tamanna Imadi Phulwari, Ar-Rahman Publishing Trust, Karachi
IMAM IBN KATHIR’S CONFESSION: “Had Ibn Jareer Tabari not recorded the strange reports, I would never have done so.” Tafseer Ibn Katheer, Khilaafat-e-Mu’awiya-o-Yazeed, Mahmood Ahmed Abbasi
IMAM AHMAD BIN HANBAL’S CHASTISEMENT: The sincere Islamic scholar of the 20th century, Allama Shibli Na’mani, on page 27 Vol 1 of his Seeratun Nabi has given a startling quote of the ancient Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal (d. 241 AH), “Three kinds of books are absolutely unfounded, Maghazi, Malahem and Tafseer.” (The Prophet’s Battles, Dreams & Prophecies and Expositions of the Quran.)
HISTORIAN IBN KHALDOON’S THRASHING: “The Muslim historians have made a mockery of history by filling it with fabrications and senseless lies.”
Muqaddama Tareekh Ibn Khaldoon. [Ibn Khaldoon then himself makes a mockery of history. Allama Sir Muhammad Iqbal points out that there is nothing worth reading in his book but the preface, Muqaddama. Dr. Shabbir respectfully agrees.]
Questions about Ismailism from a Sunni
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shiraz.virani
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Nine eleven has scarred America, but not just America. It has scarred the Islamic world, and hundreds of millions of devout and practicing Muslims for whom the word of the Qur’an is the word of God
shah karim al-hussaini [aga khan]
49th blood descendant of prophet muhammad[saw]
extracted from a speech given by MHI at the opening of ismaili jamatkhana and center in houston
hope this clears some doubts that are in you mind regarding HOLY QURAN
shah karim al-hussaini [aga khan]
49th blood descendant of prophet muhammad[saw]
extracted from a speech given by MHI at the opening of ismaili jamatkhana and center in houston
hope this clears some doubts that are in you mind regarding HOLY QURAN
Virani,
Al-Baqir said: I do not see anybody in this ummah who has all possession of all of the Qur’an except the inheritors. (As-Saffar al-Qummi Basa’ir 4:193
This is because they (the people) have renounced the Qur’an, destroyed the traditions, and annihilated the laws.(Kulayni Al-Kafi 2:600)
From Imam Al-Baqir, : O you who have been given the book from before, believe in what has been sent down about Ali, verifying that which is with you. (Al-‘Ayyashi Tafsir 1:245).....
From Imam Ali, “God knows what is in their hearts, keep away from them for the Word of Wretchedness is destined to them, as is torment; address them in convincing words, that apply to their situation.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
“However, Allah bears witness to what He has revealed to you concerning Ali. He brings it down with His Knowledge, to which the angels bear witness.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
“Indeed, those who disbelieve and oppress the family of the Prophet, denying them their rights, then Allah will never forgive them.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
Those who have who disbelieved and oppress the family of the Prophet, denying them their rights, if only they knew by what overturning they would be overturned.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide
“Whoever obeys God and His Prophet regarding the holy power of Ali and the Imams after him will enjoy great happiness.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
God chooses and calls to this religion whomever He chooses; He guides toward it him who repents]. (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
From Imam Ali, on verse 70:1-3: “A questioner clamored for ineluctable punishment/For those who do not believe in the holy power of Ali, and no one can reject this punishment/That comes from God, the Master of Degrees.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
Ali had written, and which he had brought out to the people once he had finished with it. He said to them: ‘This is the book of Allah, as Allah revealed to Muhammad. I have written it from two tablets.”
They said: “We have a complete version of the Qur’an, and so we don’t need anything from yours.”
He replied: ‘Very well. I swear by Allah that you will never, ever see it
again after this day of yours. Indeed, all that was incumbent upon me was to inform you of it when I finished it, that you may have been able to
Al-Baqir said: There is absolutely no one from the people that can say he has the entirety of the Qur’an as it was revealed by Allah except a liar; the one only who possesses it all and has preserved it as it was revealed by Allah was Ali ibn Abi Talib, and the Imams after him. (As-Saffar al-Qummi Basa’ir 4:193
Allah told the Prophet to say: “If you love Allah, then follow me, and Allah will love you,” and said: “Call upon Allah with insight, myself and those who follow me.” We see that you are calling for the opposite of what the Imams have said.
Al-Baqir said: I do not see anybody in this ummah who has all possession of all of the Qur’an except the inheritors. (As-Saffar al-Qummi Basa’ir 4:193
This is because they (the people) have renounced the Qur’an, destroyed the traditions, and annihilated the laws.(Kulayni Al-Kafi 2:600)
From Imam Al-Baqir, : O you who have been given the book from before, believe in what has been sent down about Ali, verifying that which is with you. (Al-‘Ayyashi Tafsir 1:245).....
From Imam Ali, “God knows what is in their hearts, keep away from them for the Word of Wretchedness is destined to them, as is torment; address them in convincing words, that apply to their situation.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
“However, Allah bears witness to what He has revealed to you concerning Ali. He brings it down with His Knowledge, to which the angels bear witness.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
“Indeed, those who disbelieve and oppress the family of the Prophet, denying them their rights, then Allah will never forgive them.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
Those who have who disbelieved and oppress the family of the Prophet, denying them their rights, if only they knew by what overturning they would be overturned.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide
“Whoever obeys God and His Prophet regarding the holy power of Ali and the Imams after him will enjoy great happiness.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
God chooses and calls to this religion whomever He chooses; He guides toward it him who repents]. (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
From Imam Ali, on verse 70:1-3: “A questioner clamored for ineluctable punishment/For those who do not believe in the holy power of Ali, and no one can reject this punishment/That comes from God, the Master of Degrees.” (Amir-Moezzi Divine Guide 85)
Ali had written, and which he had brought out to the people once he had finished with it. He said to them: ‘This is the book of Allah, as Allah revealed to Muhammad. I have written it from two tablets.”
They said: “We have a complete version of the Qur’an, and so we don’t need anything from yours.”
He replied: ‘Very well. I swear by Allah that you will never, ever see it
again after this day of yours. Indeed, all that was incumbent upon me was to inform you of it when I finished it, that you may have been able to
Al-Baqir said: There is absolutely no one from the people that can say he has the entirety of the Qur’an as it was revealed by Allah except a liar; the one only who possesses it all and has preserved it as it was revealed by Allah was Ali ibn Abi Talib, and the Imams after him. (As-Saffar al-Qummi Basa’ir 4:193
Allah told the Prophet to say: “If you love Allah, then follow me, and Allah will love you,” and said: “Call upon Allah with insight, myself and those who follow me.” We see that you are calling for the opposite of what the Imams have said.
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shiraz.virani
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sister znanwalla said :
dear sister iam not trying to mix apples with oranges infact you the one who want an orange[hadiths of some arrongant fool] to taste like apple[holy quran]
so far all we se is so and so person heard from so and so person....there is no clear picture in you arguements apart from copy/paste...i told you last time and iam repeating again
1] YOU DONT WANNA BELIEVE IN QURAN AND YOU CALL YOURSELF MUSLIM
2] YOU DONT WANNA BELIEVE IN QURAN YET YOU GIVE US HADITHS WHICH ARE AGAIN MAN MADE [you think quran is man made or is missing some parts and thats the reason why you dont believe it, WHAT ABOUT HADITHS ??]
are hadiths word of allah[swt] ????
How can I be frustrated? apart from talking fromboth ends of your mouth, you are now showing your own ignorance also....you haven't answered my questions....you are simply dismissing what I am saying as being touchy feely....when did I say that the noble quran is a "fairy tale"? but we can only refer to the quran as revealed - you are mixing apples with oranges....you are trying to impose the translations and the narrations of scribes, like many others but which is not the same....I am trying to show you the inherent difficulty in doing the translations from the arabic sacreddotal langauge which is dense....you are unable to grasp what I am asking or what I am saying !
dear sister iam not trying to mix apples with oranges infact you the one who want an orange[hadiths of some arrongant fool] to taste like apple[holy quran]
so far all we se is so and so person heard from so and so person....there is no clear picture in you arguements apart from copy/paste...i told you last time and iam repeating again
1] YOU DONT WANNA BELIEVE IN QURAN AND YOU CALL YOURSELF MUSLIM
2] YOU DONT WANNA BELIEVE IN QURAN YET YOU GIVE US HADITHS WHICH ARE AGAIN MAN MADE [you think quran is man made or is missing some parts and thats the reason why you dont believe it, WHAT ABOUT HADITHS ??]
are hadiths word of allah[swt] ????
Virani, Yes! the word of the Quran as revealed ! Not the word of man !!!! or the scribes !!!! or the Mullas !!!! We have NO obligation to follow anything other than the Quran of God !!!! You are trying to impose the like thereof on me and others perhaps due to your sheer ignorance !!!
In any case Allah says the Book is not enough....it is in the quran...go and find the ayat and if you can't then let me know...I will show you....also Allah rejects the "like thereof"....that also is in the quran.....when the Imam speaks, understand what he says....he is talking about the Quran which is tied to the ITRAT and inherited by them thro' Hazrat Ali (as)....he is not saying that the like thereof is the word of God !!!! please use your reasoning correctly for God's sake !
In any case Allah says the Book is not enough....it is in the quran...go and find the ayat and if you can't then let me know...I will show you....also Allah rejects the "like thereof"....that also is in the quran.....when the Imam speaks, understand what he says....he is talking about the Quran which is tied to the ITRAT and inherited by them thro' Hazrat Ali (as)....he is not saying that the like thereof is the word of God !!!! please use your reasoning correctly for God's sake !
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shiraz.virani
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sister znanwalla , i say imam Al-Baqir did not had the possession of all the quran except allah[swt] .....it was in the year 1899 that our holy imam "SHAH SULTAN MUHAMMAD SHAH " said
" Khalifa Usman has omitted some portion of the Qur'an, and, he has inserted some portion. If I was to copy the Original Qur'an-e-Shariff it will take me six years. That too I will send you, so that you will come to know what has been omitted and what has been changed"
so do we ismailis have a different quran ,SISTER ZNANWALLA ??
" Khalifa Usman has omitted some portion of the Qur'an, and, he has inserted some portion. If I was to copy the Original Qur'an-e-Shariff it will take me six years. That too I will send you, so that you will come to know what has been omitted and what has been changed"
so do we ismailis have a different quran ,SISTER ZNANWALLA ??
And if you see he says if I were to COPY !!! it is clear that all the Imams had this and transmitted it....also the mere fact that an Imam is saying what may have happened does not also imply that the copy he has is incompelete....show me where he says that? so why are you trying to mis interpret this? are the saying sof Imam Ali and his family not enough for you?
Virani,
Maybe you did not hear what Allah said...."WE have confined EVERYTHING in the MANIFEST IMAM..." - Now manifest is NOT hidden !
Now go and search and you will find in the Sunni books that uit was caliph Umar who had claimed that during the times of the prophet they used to recite ayat al rajm in which the command was to stone the adulterers and he said that this ayat has been dropped.
Go and search and you will find that the caliph Umar had left his copy of the quran with his daughter who later on claimed that she had left it under the bed and a goat ate some of the parchments....go and search and you will find that caliph Umar has claimed that Sura al Ahazab was double the size than it is in the quran today...so what happened to the rest? and then go and search and see what Bibi Ayesha has said about the verse of the suckling of the child which today is not in the quran...people have just been programmed by mullahs to accuse others for the baggage of guilt they seem to be carrying through history....they deny what is true and they follow conjectures and half truths....so may Allah guide you and the sick fanatics on the RIGHT Path !!!
Maybe you did not hear what Allah said...."WE have confined EVERYTHING in the MANIFEST IMAM..." - Now manifest is NOT hidden !
Now go and search and you will find in the Sunni books that uit was caliph Umar who had claimed that during the times of the prophet they used to recite ayat al rajm in which the command was to stone the adulterers and he said that this ayat has been dropped.
Go and search and you will find that the caliph Umar had left his copy of the quran with his daughter who later on claimed that she had left it under the bed and a goat ate some of the parchments....go and search and you will find that caliph Umar has claimed that Sura al Ahazab was double the size than it is in the quran today...so what happened to the rest? and then go and search and see what Bibi Ayesha has said about the verse of the suckling of the child which today is not in the quran...people have just been programmed by mullahs to accuse others for the baggage of guilt they seem to be carrying through history....they deny what is true and they follow conjectures and half truths....so may Allah guide you and the sick fanatics on the RIGHT Path !!!
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shiraz.virani
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sister znanwalla said :
if he had the copy, we ismailis wouldnt be reading the dua which is taken from current quran...or should i say eternal quran
if the imam had a different copy, we ismailis woulndt be reciting ginan in jamatkhana
if the imam had a different copy, you and me wouldn't be debating here right now !!!!
get your facts straight sister !
"Above all, following the guidance of the Holy Quran, there was freedom of enquiry and research. The result was a magnificent flowering of artistic and intellectual activity throughout the ummah"
(Aga Khan IV, Aga Khan University, 16 March 1983, Karachi, Pakistan)
And if you see he says if I were to COPY !!! it is clear that all the Imams had this and transmitted it....also the mere fact that an Imam is saying what may have happened does not also imply that the copy he has is incompelete....show me where he says that? so why are you trying to mis interpret this? are the saying sof Imam Ali and his family not enough for you?
if he had the copy, we ismailis wouldnt be reading the dua which is taken from current quran...or should i say eternal quran
if the imam had a different copy, we ismailis woulndt be reciting ginan in jamatkhana
if the imam had a different copy, you and me wouldn't be debating here right now !!!!
get your facts straight sister !
"Above all, following the guidance of the Holy Quran, there was freedom of enquiry and research. The result was a magnificent flowering of artistic and intellectual activity throughout the ummah"
(Aga Khan IV, Aga Khan University, 16 March 1983, Karachi, Pakistan)
When did I say that it is a "different" quran? or don't you understand what is a like thereof?...do you know what is SAMIT ? and what is NATIQ ?
SAY: Were the sea to be Ink for the words of my Lord, verily the sea would be used up before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if WE were to bring the LIKE THEREOF to HELP..." (Sura al Kahf).
So is the "like thereof" the same as "different"....
SAY: Were the sea to be Ink for the words of my Lord, verily the sea would be used up before the words of my Lord were exhausted, even if WE were to bring the LIKE THEREOF to HELP..." (Sura al Kahf).
So is the "like thereof" the same as "different"....
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shiraz.virani
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Maybe you did not hear what Allah said...."WE have confined EVERYTHING in the MANIFEST IMAM..." - Now manifest is NOT hidden !
why should i do the research when i believe in quran[eternal book] allah[ eternal lord], rasool[ eternal messenger of islam] and imams[as] ...
you the one who want an orage taste like an apple, not me !!!!
you the one who have problems with quran, not me !!!
you the one who believe in hadiths, not me !!!!
fanatics ? look who's talking !!!!
"Do we have a clear, firm and precise understanding of what Muslim Society is to be in times to come?" And if, as I believe, the answer is uncertain, where else can we search than in the Holy Quran, and in the example of Allah's last and final Prophet?
There is no justification for delaying the search for the answer to this question by the Muslims of the world, because we have the knowledge that Islam is Allah's final message, the Quran His final book and Mohammed His last Prophet. We are blessed that the answers drawn from these sources guarantee that neither now, nor at any time in the future will we be going "
shah karim al hussaini , 49th living and present imam @ speech at seerat conference
Now go and search and you will find in the Sunni books that uit was caliph Umar who had claimed that during the times of the prophet they used to recite ayat al rajm in which the command was to stone the adulterers and he said that this ayat has been dropped.
why should i do the research when i believe in quran[eternal book] allah[ eternal lord], rasool[ eternal messenger of islam] and imams[as] ...
you the one who want an orage taste like an apple, not me !!!!
you the one who have problems with quran, not me !!!
you the one who believe in hadiths, not me !!!!
Go and search and you will find that the caliph Umar had left his copy of the quran with his daughter who later on claimed that she had left it under the bed and a goat ate some of the parchments....go and search and you will find that caliph Umar has claimed that Sura al Ahazab was double the size than it is in the quran today...so what happened to the rest? and then go and search and see what Bibi Ayesha has said about the verse of the suckling of the child which today is not in the quran...people have just been programmed by mullahs to accuse others for the baggage of guilt they seem to be carrying through history....they deny what is true and they follow conjectures and half truths....so may Allah guide you and the sick fanatics on the RIGHT Path !!!
fanatics ? look who's talking !!!!
"Do we have a clear, firm and precise understanding of what Muslim Society is to be in times to come?" And if, as I believe, the answer is uncertain, where else can we search than in the Holy Quran, and in the example of Allah's last and final Prophet?
There is no justification for delaying the search for the answer to this question by the Muslims of the world, because we have the knowledge that Islam is Allah's final message, the Quran His final book and Mohammed His last Prophet. We are blessed that the answers drawn from these sources guarantee that neither now, nor at any time in the future will we be going "
shah karim al hussaini , 49th living and present imam @ speech at seerat conference
Imam says follow the Quran !! The Quran !!! You are saying lets us follow the interpolations and the man made texts....I don't blame you...there are many like you who also do the same...however Allah makes it clear...
" SAY: Though mankind and the Jinn should ASSEMBLE to produce the like of this quran, they could NOT produce the like thereof, even if they were to help one another..." (Sura Bani Isr'ail)....
So do you see that the texts put together by the scribes after the death of the Prophet, is not the entire quran....Allah also confirms that HIS BOOK is Perspicous - meaning perfect in all respects....the texts are NOT ! you have also conceded that they are not....so the Imam would not ask anyone to follow anything else other than THE QURAN...and so if you don't understand what he says, it is not my fault brother...hold onto the Imam and you have the Quran of God !!!!
" SAY: Though mankind and the Jinn should ASSEMBLE to produce the like of this quran, they could NOT produce the like thereof, even if they were to help one another..." (Sura Bani Isr'ail)....
So do you see that the texts put together by the scribes after the death of the Prophet, is not the entire quran....Allah also confirms that HIS BOOK is Perspicous - meaning perfect in all respects....the texts are NOT ! you have also conceded that they are not....so the Imam would not ask anyone to follow anything else other than THE QURAN...and so if you don't understand what he says, it is not my fault brother...hold onto the Imam and you have the Quran of God !!!!
..."why should i do the research when i believe in quran[eternal book] allah[ eternal lord], rasool[ eternal messenger of islam] and imams[as] ..."...
Kindly explain how one becomes "eternal"? what is the basis? the criteria? infact quran is considered as the SPEECH of God and Allah confirms this in the quran also....and speech is from HIS creative attribute....if you claim that Messengership is "eternal" then who is the present "messenger" ? Naboowat has ended ! or are you simply making ignorant and bombastic statements?....btw....if all namely quran, Messenger, are eternal, then what about the Imam then? so why the distinction? what is the bias?....
Kindly explain how one becomes "eternal"? what is the basis? the criteria? infact quran is considered as the SPEECH of God and Allah confirms this in the quran also....and speech is from HIS creative attribute....if you claim that Messengership is "eternal" then who is the present "messenger" ? Naboowat has ended ! or are you simply making ignorant and bombastic statements?....btw....if all namely quran, Messenger, are eternal, then what about the Imam then? so why the distinction? what is the bias?....
Virani..." Islam is Allah's final message, the Quran His final book and Mohammed His last Prophet. We are blessed that the answers drawn from these sources guarantee that neither now, nor at any time in the future will we be going ..."
Absoluteluy correct ! I concur ! but it is the Quran of God as revealed to Muhamad SAW and as preserved by his family that is being referred to here....you are offering a substitute on the sly which I am opposed to....
Absoluteluy correct ! I concur ! but it is the Quran of God as revealed to Muhamad SAW and as preserved by his family that is being referred to here....you are offering a substitute on the sly which I am opposed to....
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shiraz.virani
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sister znanwalla said :
i know that must have hurt !!!
similarly when you talk about quran, show some respect lady!
iam an ismaili, but i dont disrepect the holy quran ! ...if somebody says something about imam[as] you get a high BP but what when you compare quran with some fairytale ?
you are not here to share you views sister, you're here to split ....and i dont appreciate those who split faith just to prove themselves right that too from some fake/manipulated hadiths
and regarding how one can get eternal, is like asking how is ALLAH ETERNAL ? can you tell me how and why allah is eternal ??, now dont come up to me saying "rasool[saw] was not a mortal !! " ofcourse he was !...but he was an eternal messenger of islam !!!
lemme put it again for you sister :
There is no justification for delaying the search for the answer to this question by the Muslims of the world, because we have the knowledge that Islam is Allah's final message, the Quran His final book and Mohammed His last Prophet. We are blessed that the answers drawn from these sources guarantee that neither now, nor at any time in the future will we be going astray.
The Holy Prophet's life gives us every fundamental guideline that we require to resolve the problem as successfully as our human minds and intellects can visualize. His example of integrity, loyalty, honesty, generosity both of means and of time, his solicitude for the poor, the weak and the sick, his steadfastness in friendship, his humility in success, his magnanimity in victory, his simplicity, his wisdom in conceiving new solutions for problems which could not be solved by traditional methods, without affecting the fundamental concepts of Islam, surely all these are foundations which, correctly understood and sincerely interpreted, must enable us to conceive what should be a truly modern and dynamic Islamic Society in the years ahead.
shah karim al-hussaini , 49th living imam
seerat conference, March 12th 1976
Kindly explain how one becomes "eternal"? what is the basis? the criteria? infact quran is considered as the SPEECH of God and Allah confirms this in the quran also....and speech is from HIS creative attribute....if you claim that Messengership is "eternal" then who is the present "messenger" ? Naboowat has ended ! or are you simply making ignorant and bombastic statements?....btw....if all namely quran, Messenger, are eternal, then what about the Imam then? so why the distinction? what is the bias?....
i know that must have hurt !!!
similarly when you talk about quran, show some respect lady!
iam an ismaili, but i dont disrepect the holy quran ! ...if somebody says something about imam[as] you get a high BP but what when you compare quran with some fairytale ?
you are not here to share you views sister, you're here to split ....and i dont appreciate those who split faith just to prove themselves right that too from some fake/manipulated hadiths
and regarding how one can get eternal, is like asking how is ALLAH ETERNAL ? can you tell me how and why allah is eternal ??, now dont come up to me saying "rasool[saw] was not a mortal !! " ofcourse he was !...but he was an eternal messenger of islam !!!
lemme put it again for you sister :
There is no justification for delaying the search for the answer to this question by the Muslims of the world, because we have the knowledge that Islam is Allah's final message, the Quran His final book and Mohammed His last Prophet. We are blessed that the answers drawn from these sources guarantee that neither now, nor at any time in the future will we be going astray.
The Holy Prophet's life gives us every fundamental guideline that we require to resolve the problem as successfully as our human minds and intellects can visualize. His example of integrity, loyalty, honesty, generosity both of means and of time, his solicitude for the poor, the weak and the sick, his steadfastness in friendship, his humility in success, his magnanimity in victory, his simplicity, his wisdom in conceiving new solutions for problems which could not be solved by traditional methods, without affecting the fundamental concepts of Islam, surely all these are foundations which, correctly understood and sincerely interpreted, must enable us to conceive what should be a truly modern and dynamic Islamic Society in the years ahead.
shah karim al-hussaini , 49th living imam
seerat conference, March 12th 1976
Virani, in reality you RESPECT forgeries and so you are deceptive - I have been abundantly clear that people have no obligations to follow any man made fabrications but only the Quran of God as revealed and you are still contesting....you are saying Messengership is eternal...yet you are unable to prove your statement other than making felicitous statements....you are saying quran is eternal but you are equating interpolations and fabrications and calling it the quran when it is a like thereof....you are deceiving people....I am not splitting anyone....I am showing them what others already know and what you are suppressing....you claim you are an Ismaili....I have serious doubts...
64: 8 Believe, therefore, in Allah And His Apostle, and In the Light which We Have sent down. And Allah Is well acquainted With all that ye do.
64: 10 But those who reject Faith And treat Our Signs As falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, To dwell therein for aye: And evil is that Goal.
Now read this...
5: 17 There hath come to you From Allah a (new) light And a perspicuous Book, - Go and find out the meaning of what is Perspicous? First of all the chronological order of what you call quran is not correct ...am I right?
Also isn't it clear to you that Allah had sent the Book? Now if HE had sent a Book then what was the need for scribes (half of whom had died already) to gather all the mushufs and put them together and called it quarn of God? answer me ! don't make accusations which are wild and derogatory....
64: 8 Believe, therefore, in Allah And His Apostle, and In the Light which We Have sent down. And Allah Is well acquainted With all that ye do.
64: 10 But those who reject Faith And treat Our Signs As falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, To dwell therein for aye: And evil is that Goal.
Now read this...
5: 17 There hath come to you From Allah a (new) light And a perspicuous Book, - Go and find out the meaning of what is Perspicous? First of all the chronological order of what you call quran is not correct ...am I right?
Also isn't it clear to you that Allah had sent the Book? Now if HE had sent a Book then what was the need for scribes (half of whom had died already) to gather all the mushufs and put them together and called it quarn of God? answer me ! don't make accusations which are wild and derogatory....
They say: "We believe;" But when they are alone with their evil ones, They say: "We are really with you, we (were) only jesting." Allah will throw back their mockery on them and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (to and fro).
These are they who have bartered guidance for error: but their traffic is profitless and they have lost true direction. Surah Baqaraa (2): 13
Al-Hamdu ! it is a Covenant of God that HE will protect HIS Light and so there is both the Natiq and the Samit but which is confined into a Manifest Imam....the Imam e zamana !
Isn't it ironical that for you the fabrications of man are "eternal" ! Messengership which has ended (as Nabi was also a Rasool) is still eternal but the Imamat is not divine huh? isn't that what you have said ? You have...and yet you are quoting here from the speeches of the Imam and trying to play this to your advantage - you are infact accept what the Imam is saying as gospel truth and in the same breath claiming he is not divine....now would an Ismaili really show such a pattern?
So who are you ? tell us the truth !
God had appointed Abraham as an Imam of entire mankind and his progeny except the wrong-doers and the unjust ones.
"They intend that they put out the Light of Allah with their mouths but Allah disdains (aught) save that HE keeps perfect HIS Light, however much the disbelievers are averse.." (HQ)
These are they who have bartered guidance for error: but their traffic is profitless and they have lost true direction. Surah Baqaraa (2): 13
Al-Hamdu ! it is a Covenant of God that HE will protect HIS Light and so there is both the Natiq and the Samit but which is confined into a Manifest Imam....the Imam e zamana !
Isn't it ironical that for you the fabrications of man are "eternal" ! Messengership which has ended (as Nabi was also a Rasool) is still eternal but the Imamat is not divine huh? isn't that what you have said ? You have...and yet you are quoting here from the speeches of the Imam and trying to play this to your advantage - you are infact accept what the Imam is saying as gospel truth and in the same breath claiming he is not divine....now would an Ismaili really show such a pattern?
So who are you ? tell us the truth !
God had appointed Abraham as an Imam of entire mankind and his progeny except the wrong-doers and the unjust ones.
"They intend that they put out the Light of Allah with their mouths but Allah disdains (aught) save that HE keeps perfect HIS Light, however much the disbelievers are averse.." (HQ)
The Qur’an was unquestionably revealed at the exalted prophet’s heart as a one time down-load during a night of Ramadhan in 610 CE. From then on, it was conveyed to people in stages on Divine Command. So, there is no human touch involved in its arrangement at all.....but where? in the Prophet's own being.
Humbly speaking, here is some evidence from the Qur’an itself.
Please see the evidence:
ONE: Notice God calling the Qur’an a Book right in the beginning (2:2), and read on.
The complete Book was revealed and preserved in the exalted prophet’s heart on day one (in Ramadhan 610 CE) when he was commissioned.
2:2 This is a Book whereof there is absolutely no doubt concerning its authority and authenticity. And it leaves no doubts lingering in a seeking mind….
TWO: 44:3 We have revealed it on a Blessed Night. We have always been warning. [Again, the entire Qur’an was revealed (down-loaded on the Prophet’s heart) in a Blessed Night in the month of Ramadhan, 610 CE, and then conveyed to mankind in stages over a period of 23 years. 2:185, 97:1]
THREE: 2:185 The month of Ramadhan has been chosen for this collective training (Saum) since this is the month in which the Qur’an was revealed …
FOUR: Surah 97…….. Al-Qadr …(This is the 97th Surah of the Qur’an. The Night of Majesty is when the entire Qur’an was revealed through Gabriel on the exalted Messenger’s heart in the month of Ramadhan in the year 610 CE.
Contrary to popular belief, “Iqra” was not the first word revealed to the exalte Prophet.
97:1 Indeed, We have revealed it in the Night of Majesty.
97:2 Ah, what will enlighten you what it is, the Night of Majesty!
97:3 The Night of Majesty is better than a thousand months. [A day of
enlightenment is better than a life-time of ignorance]
Experience this: Wrong translations make the Qur’an appear disjointed, without flow and thus difficult to understand.
Translate the Qur’an in its original form & language and you will find it flowing smoothly from A to Z. You will not find a hint of human touch in its arrangement.
THE MAKKAH DIALECT - Reflect on the following verses in QXP:
44:58 (O Prophet) We have made this Qur’an easy in your tongue, in order that they may take it to heart.
Now closely read the following ayats in the TEXTS which you are boasting about...
69:40 This is the revealed Word in the dialect of a noble Messenger.
81:19 This is the revealed Word in the dialect of a noble Messenger.
Now the dilemma of the ‘authorities’ ------ just one example:
Many of your ‘great scholars’ have been translating INNAHU LAQAULU
RASOOLIN KAREEM in 69:40 and 81:19 as,
“This Qur’an is utterance (talk) of a noble angel.” (Fateh Muhammad Jallandhary)
“This is certainly the word (descended) upon an honourable messenger.”
(Muhammad Ali, Urdu)
“This is the saying (speech) of a respected angel. (Ashraf Ali Thanwil)
“Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger.” (Yousuf Ali).
“This is in truth the word of an honoured messenger.” (Pickthall).
“This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.” (Rashad Khalifa).
“Behold, this (divine writ) is indeed the [inspired] word of a noble messenger.” (Muhammad Asad).
“This Qur’an is the utterance (narration) of God, the noble angel, and the exalted Messenger.” (Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood)
“Verily, this is the statement of a respected message-bearer.” (Maududi).
“This (Qur’an) is the saying of a high angel.” (Shah Abdul Qadir)
Wow! So it is the word of an angel and not the Word of God! Or, is it the word of Messenger Muhammad (S)?
Similar errors and confusions have been created by the ancient ‘authorities’.
Did you see the number of brackets they had to use?
Why do many of them translate Rasool as angel here? Because they did not wish to revert to the original tongue of Revelation, the Quraish dialect of the 14 centuries old Makkah for various reasons, a daunting task being just one of them.
More importantly, they blindly follow the trails left by the Criminal of Islam, ‘Imam’ Tabari, the first (’canonized’) exponent of the Qur’an although he was a Zoroastrian-Persian who lived 300 years after the exalted prophet (d. 310 AH).
That was the time when the Persian-Zoroastrian concepts held sway in the ‘Islamic’ Empire.
These ‘authorities’ conveniently contradict countless verses that clearly state, “The Qur’an is the Word of God”, and thus, knowingly or unknowingly, they attempt to demolish the very foundation, the Divine Revelation, of the Glorious Book.
The above single example shows you the ensuing chaos and it can give you an idea how misguided and misguiding, unfortunately, our Qur’an translators and translations have been.
Now you want to insist that this is the Quran ! and you want us to believe you ! and then you say I am trying to cause a split...is it me or you who is trying to coerce people on the sly?
Now if the Quran had already referred to the Book as early as the second Sura, was there a need to create and compile your own texts and call it "The Quran" ? it is a logical question - please answer methodically now....I have shown you sound evidence and I still have a lot to offer !
Humbly speaking, here is some evidence from the Qur’an itself.
Please see the evidence:
ONE: Notice God calling the Qur’an a Book right in the beginning (2:2), and read on.
The complete Book was revealed and preserved in the exalted prophet’s heart on day one (in Ramadhan 610 CE) when he was commissioned.
2:2 This is a Book whereof there is absolutely no doubt concerning its authority and authenticity. And it leaves no doubts lingering in a seeking mind….
TWO: 44:3 We have revealed it on a Blessed Night. We have always been warning. [Again, the entire Qur’an was revealed (down-loaded on the Prophet’s heart) in a Blessed Night in the month of Ramadhan, 610 CE, and then conveyed to mankind in stages over a period of 23 years. 2:185, 97:1]
THREE: 2:185 The month of Ramadhan has been chosen for this collective training (Saum) since this is the month in which the Qur’an was revealed …
FOUR: Surah 97…….. Al-Qadr …(This is the 97th Surah of the Qur’an. The Night of Majesty is when the entire Qur’an was revealed through Gabriel on the exalted Messenger’s heart in the month of Ramadhan in the year 610 CE.
Contrary to popular belief, “Iqra” was not the first word revealed to the exalte Prophet.
97:1 Indeed, We have revealed it in the Night of Majesty.
97:2 Ah, what will enlighten you what it is, the Night of Majesty!
97:3 The Night of Majesty is better than a thousand months. [A day of
enlightenment is better than a life-time of ignorance]
Experience this: Wrong translations make the Qur’an appear disjointed, without flow and thus difficult to understand.
Translate the Qur’an in its original form & language and you will find it flowing smoothly from A to Z. You will not find a hint of human touch in its arrangement.
THE MAKKAH DIALECT - Reflect on the following verses in QXP:
44:58 (O Prophet) We have made this Qur’an easy in your tongue, in order that they may take it to heart.
Now closely read the following ayats in the TEXTS which you are boasting about...
69:40 This is the revealed Word in the dialect of a noble Messenger.
81:19 This is the revealed Word in the dialect of a noble Messenger.
Now the dilemma of the ‘authorities’ ------ just one example:
Many of your ‘great scholars’ have been translating INNAHU LAQAULU
RASOOLIN KAREEM in 69:40 and 81:19 as,
“This Qur’an is utterance (talk) of a noble angel.” (Fateh Muhammad Jallandhary)
“This is certainly the word (descended) upon an honourable messenger.”
(Muhammad Ali, Urdu)
“This is the saying (speech) of a respected angel. (Ashraf Ali Thanwil)
“Verily this is the word of a most honourable Messenger.” (Yousuf Ali).
“This is in truth the word of an honoured messenger.” (Pickthall).
“This is the utterance of an honorable messenger.” (Rashad Khalifa).
“Behold, this (divine writ) is indeed the [inspired] word of a noble messenger.” (Muhammad Asad).
“This Qur’an is the utterance (narration) of God, the noble angel, and the exalted Messenger.” (Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood)
“Verily, this is the statement of a respected message-bearer.” (Maududi).
“This (Qur’an) is the saying of a high angel.” (Shah Abdul Qadir)
Wow! So it is the word of an angel and not the Word of God! Or, is it the word of Messenger Muhammad (S)?
Similar errors and confusions have been created by the ancient ‘authorities’.
Did you see the number of brackets they had to use?
Why do many of them translate Rasool as angel here? Because they did not wish to revert to the original tongue of Revelation, the Quraish dialect of the 14 centuries old Makkah for various reasons, a daunting task being just one of them.
More importantly, they blindly follow the trails left by the Criminal of Islam, ‘Imam’ Tabari, the first (’canonized’) exponent of the Qur’an although he was a Zoroastrian-Persian who lived 300 years after the exalted prophet (d. 310 AH).
That was the time when the Persian-Zoroastrian concepts held sway in the ‘Islamic’ Empire.
These ‘authorities’ conveniently contradict countless verses that clearly state, “The Qur’an is the Word of God”, and thus, knowingly or unknowingly, they attempt to demolish the very foundation, the Divine Revelation, of the Glorious Book.
The above single example shows you the ensuing chaos and it can give you an idea how misguided and misguiding, unfortunately, our Qur’an translators and translations have been.
Now you want to insist that this is the Quran ! and you want us to believe you ! and then you say I am trying to cause a split...is it me or you who is trying to coerce people on the sly?
Now if the Quran had already referred to the Book as early as the second Sura, was there a need to create and compile your own texts and call it "The Quran" ? it is a logical question - please answer methodically now....I have shown you sound evidence and I still have a lot to offer !
My 2 cents
I do not understand the hi fi dicussions in this forum but I wanted to see if anyone else has read or heard the following (my recollection in my words)
Imam has said that he is Mazhar-e-Allah.
Now how do we understand this. I am Mazhar-e-Shamsu. You are Mazhar-e-(--------)
Mowla Aly has said (My recollection of the sentence)
Mohammed was the last messenger of Allah for after him Allah speaks to man directly.
As far as what Ismailies believe. It varies. The same person can be a father to some, guide to someone else, son of someone, husband etc.
I think what we can speak of, is to the best of our understanding what Ismailies are supposed to believe in.
We are supposed to live our lives according to the direction of our Mowla. He communicates that to us through his Farmans.
The quran we read is a collection of words. How we interpret them is an individual matter.
Ismailies have chosen to let their Imam interpret it for them.
We (are supposed to) follow his direction.
He makes it simple for us but then we start arguing about what his farmans mean.
Again it is individual. His words mean one thing to you and another to me.
Imam has said that he is Mazhar-e-Allah.
Now how do we understand this. I am Mazhar-e-Shamsu. You are Mazhar-e-(--------)
Mowla Aly has said (My recollection of the sentence)
Mohammed was the last messenger of Allah for after him Allah speaks to man directly.
As far as what Ismailies believe. It varies. The same person can be a father to some, guide to someone else, son of someone, husband etc.
I think what we can speak of, is to the best of our understanding what Ismailies are supposed to believe in.
We are supposed to live our lives according to the direction of our Mowla. He communicates that to us through his Farmans.
The quran we read is a collection of words. How we interpret them is an individual matter.
Ismailies have chosen to let their Imam interpret it for them.
We (are supposed to) follow his direction.
He makes it simple for us but then we start arguing about what his farmans mean.
Again it is individual. His words mean one thing to you and another to me.
Brother, You recollection about what Ali (as) said is incorrect !
Let us take a deeper look at the reality of prayer. Today, for some odd
reason, many muslims like you have the idea that our relationship and
connection with Allah is direct, individual and unmediated.
If all human beings were truly conscious of their direct and unmediated connection to Allah, then Allah would have revealed His Revelations to the heart of every person and would not have appointed specific human beings as His Prophets.
Nevertheless, Allah did appoint single individuals as his
Prophets and representatives by which He communicates to mankind at large....HE would not have appointed 124,000 Prophets and over 300 Rasools (messengers)....all Messengers were also Prophets but all Prophets were NOT Messengers and so Messengership has ended too !
It is now Imamat !!!!
Let us take a deeper look at the reality of prayer. Today, for some odd
reason, many muslims like you have the idea that our relationship and
connection with Allah is direct, individual and unmediated.
If all human beings were truly conscious of their direct and unmediated connection to Allah, then Allah would have revealed His Revelations to the heart of every person and would not have appointed specific human beings as His Prophets.
Nevertheless, Allah did appoint single individuals as his
Prophets and representatives by which He communicates to mankind at large....HE would not have appointed 124,000 Prophets and over 300 Rasools (messengers)....all Messengers were also Prophets but all Prophets were NOT Messengers and so Messengership has ended too !
It is now Imamat !!!!
"One of the manifestations of their rejecting the Book (of Allah behind their backs) (see Quran 2:101) is that they have fixed its words. but they have altered the limits (of its command) (harrafu hududah).
They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe(what) it (says).
Ignorant people delight in their preservation of its narration, but the knowledgeable people deplore their ignoring to observe (what) it (says)."....(Ahl al Bayt)
(you will find the above in the Sh'ia books)
...."And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!"....(Quran 3:187)...
We have sent among you a Messenger from you (minkum) who recites to you Our Signs and purifies you and teaches you the Book (al-Kitab) and the Wisdom (al-Hikmat) and teaches you that which you did not know. - Holy Quran 2:151
Even if anyone changes one simple word, it changes the context - if the context is destroyed then what else is left ?...
When we study the TEXTS or NARRATIONS we find that the conjecture of the events behind individual verses of the Qur’an (Shaan-e-Nuzool) is an exercise in futility.
Instead of explaining, it distorts the meaning and binds the timeless verses to some particular supposed incidents.
Likewise, trying to establish whether a certain Surah was revealed in Makkah or Madinah is practically irrelevant to the Glorious Message.
The so-called ‘Ulama’ and exponents wasted centuries in this fruitless endeavor and their blind followers keep doing the same.
Yet, they have fierce disagreement on this non-issue to this day....so please join the bandwagon..
They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe(what) it (says).
Ignorant people delight in their preservation of its narration, but the knowledgeable people deplore their ignoring to observe (what) it (says)."....(Ahl al Bayt)
(you will find the above in the Sh'ia books)
...."And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!"....(Quran 3:187)...
We have sent among you a Messenger from you (minkum) who recites to you Our Signs and purifies you and teaches you the Book (al-Kitab) and the Wisdom (al-Hikmat) and teaches you that which you did not know. - Holy Quran 2:151
Even if anyone changes one simple word, it changes the context - if the context is destroyed then what else is left ?...
When we study the TEXTS or NARRATIONS we find that the conjecture of the events behind individual verses of the Qur’an (Shaan-e-Nuzool) is an exercise in futility.
Instead of explaining, it distorts the meaning and binds the timeless verses to some particular supposed incidents.
Likewise, trying to establish whether a certain Surah was revealed in Makkah or Madinah is practically irrelevant to the Glorious Message.
The so-called ‘Ulama’ and exponents wasted centuries in this fruitless endeavor and their blind followers keep doing the same.
Yet, they have fierce disagreement on this non-issue to this day....so please join the bandwagon..
Allah speaks to man directly
Allah speaks to man directly
Our Imam speaks to us directly
Mazhar-e-Allah speaks to us directly.
Yes?
.
Our Imam speaks to us directly
Mazhar-e-Allah speaks to us directly.
Yes?
.
Clearly, the prophet served as the intercessor and mediator
between Allah and the believers - both in conveying Allah's Message to
mankind and in conveying the believers pleas and prayers to Allah....so Allah does not speak directly to mankind !
The question is, what happens after the death of the Prophet? Is there no
one to carry out and continue these spiritual functions after the prophet?
Are the believers left without a channel or means to the Love, Mercy,
Blessings and Forgiveness of Allah?
The Shii Muslims affirm that the Prophet beqeathed and entrusted his
religious and spiritual authority to His progeny (itrat) and family (ahl
al-bayt) through Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib and his descendants - the Imams.
For the Shia, each Imam in his own time serves as the intercessor and
mediator between Allah and the mumins (believers) and the functions that the Quran commands the Prophet to perform are taken over by the Imam of the Time, with the exception of revelation since Muhammad is the last of the prophets.
So if you say Allah still speaks to mankind or Messengership continues then you are contradicting the quran itself and maintaining that Revelations are still coming through and this is not the case.
The above is a principle which is then reflected in Sh'ia practices. We
invoke the help and intercession of the Imam of the Time when we seek the help and bounties of Allah. In fact, the Holy Quran encourages believers to seek the Means of Approach (al-wasilah) unto Allah:
"O ye who have faith! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach
al-wasila) unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye
may prosper."- Holy Quran 5:35
The key word here is "Wasilah" which means "medium" or "means of
approach".The Wasilah of Allah is the Prophet in his age and the Imam in his time.
This concept of Wasilah is reflected in our Holy Dua in several prayers
and verses. For example, we say:
"In the time of difficulties seek the intercession/ help (tawassalu) of
your Mawla, the present living Shah Karim al-Husayni."
This is not pure theory. We can see today that Mawlana Hazar Imam
continues to bless his spiritual children and pray for them. Not only spiritually,but even materially, Mawlana Hazar Imam comes to the aid of his spiritual children and the Muslim Ummah and humanity at large. The Imam, both theoretically and practically, is the means by which God bestows His blessings and bounties upon the mumins, the Muslims, and all of humanity.
It may be asked, why do the Prophets and Imams have this prerogative and not each individual?
The reason has to do with the basic concept of Islam or "submission to
God's will". While we may call ourselves "Muslims", a "muslim" in the true meaning of the word is one whose soul is totally and perfectly submitted
to the Will of Allah at all times. Average, fallible human beings cannot
claim to be this as we commit sins all the time and our minds constantly waiver from the remembrance of Allah every moment. Only purifiied souls such as the Prophet and the Imams of his Ahl al-Bayt (whom God has purified by Quran 33:33) are "muslim" in the true sense; they are
perfectly submitted to God's Will and only they can truly possess a direct,unmediated relationship with Allah by virtue of the divine closeness (walayah) of their souls with Allah. We can only hope to one day attain this spiritual state of pure submission, pure islam in the spiritual sense - and we strive to that goal by following the Farmans of the pure Imams and practicing their instructions in our lives.
I will end by quoting our 5th holy Imam, Mawlana Jafar as-Sadiq where he
explains the role of the Imam as the intercessor and medium between Allah and humanity.
"We are the Gates of God. We are the medium for His people. He who
approaches Him through us is brought near him. He who seeks our
intercession is interceded for. He who seeks His favours through us is
favoured by Him. He who turns away from us goes astray."
- Imam Jafar as-Sadiq, (quoted in Qadi al-Numan, Code of Conduct for the Followers of the Imam, trans. Jawad al-Muscati, A.M. Moulvi, pp. 42)
Now that is Sirat ul Mustaqeem that you always pray for in your Du'a !
between Allah and the believers - both in conveying Allah's Message to
mankind and in conveying the believers pleas and prayers to Allah....so Allah does not speak directly to mankind !
The question is, what happens after the death of the Prophet? Is there no
one to carry out and continue these spiritual functions after the prophet?
Are the believers left without a channel or means to the Love, Mercy,
Blessings and Forgiveness of Allah?
The Shii Muslims affirm that the Prophet beqeathed and entrusted his
religious and spiritual authority to His progeny (itrat) and family (ahl
al-bayt) through Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib and his descendants - the Imams.
For the Shia, each Imam in his own time serves as the intercessor and
mediator between Allah and the mumins (believers) and the functions that the Quran commands the Prophet to perform are taken over by the Imam of the Time, with the exception of revelation since Muhammad is the last of the prophets.
So if you say Allah still speaks to mankind or Messengership continues then you are contradicting the quran itself and maintaining that Revelations are still coming through and this is not the case.
The above is a principle which is then reflected in Sh'ia practices. We
invoke the help and intercession of the Imam of the Time when we seek the help and bounties of Allah. In fact, the Holy Quran encourages believers to seek the Means of Approach (al-wasilah) unto Allah:
"O ye who have faith! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach
al-wasila) unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye
may prosper."- Holy Quran 5:35
The key word here is "Wasilah" which means "medium" or "means of
approach".The Wasilah of Allah is the Prophet in his age and the Imam in his time.
This concept of Wasilah is reflected in our Holy Dua in several prayers
and verses. For example, we say:
"In the time of difficulties seek the intercession/ help (tawassalu) of
your Mawla, the present living Shah Karim al-Husayni."
This is not pure theory. We can see today that Mawlana Hazar Imam
continues to bless his spiritual children and pray for them. Not only spiritually,but even materially, Mawlana Hazar Imam comes to the aid of his spiritual children and the Muslim Ummah and humanity at large. The Imam, both theoretically and practically, is the means by which God bestows His blessings and bounties upon the mumins, the Muslims, and all of humanity.
It may be asked, why do the Prophets and Imams have this prerogative and not each individual?
The reason has to do with the basic concept of Islam or "submission to
God's will". While we may call ourselves "Muslims", a "muslim" in the true meaning of the word is one whose soul is totally and perfectly submitted
to the Will of Allah at all times. Average, fallible human beings cannot
claim to be this as we commit sins all the time and our minds constantly waiver from the remembrance of Allah every moment. Only purifiied souls such as the Prophet and the Imams of his Ahl al-Bayt (whom God has purified by Quran 33:33) are "muslim" in the true sense; they are
perfectly submitted to God's Will and only they can truly possess a direct,unmediated relationship with Allah by virtue of the divine closeness (walayah) of their souls with Allah. We can only hope to one day attain this spiritual state of pure submission, pure islam in the spiritual sense - and we strive to that goal by following the Farmans of the pure Imams and practicing their instructions in our lives.
I will end by quoting our 5th holy Imam, Mawlana Jafar as-Sadiq where he
explains the role of the Imam as the intercessor and medium between Allah and humanity.
"We are the Gates of God. We are the medium for His people. He who
approaches Him through us is brought near him. He who seeks our
intercession is interceded for. He who seeks His favours through us is
favoured by Him. He who turns away from us goes astray."
- Imam Jafar as-Sadiq, (quoted in Qadi al-Numan, Code of Conduct for the Followers of the Imam, trans. Jawad al-Muscati, A.M. Moulvi, pp. 42)
Now that is Sirat ul Mustaqeem that you always pray for in your Du'a !
-
shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
sister znanwalla said :
dearest sister, read the above aayat again !!!!
it is you who reject the book not our sister branches...
it is you who said its a fairy tale not them
[please note that iam not pointing towards our ismaili brothers and sisters, iam talking about you as a person !]
plus when asked show me your quran if you have any apart from the current quran...you start giving us your man made innovations = HADITHS
there is no clarity in your arguement !
, sister since you call yourself knowledgeable person i want you to interpret @ above aayat in you own words
so sister how is @ above aayat related to our muslim brothers ????
sister can you please tell me what are the signs of allah[swt] ??? @ above verse says "our signs" = allah's signs...your take on this please ???
When we study the TEXTS or NARRATIONS we find that the conjecture of the events behind individual verses of the Qur’an (Shaan-e-Nuzool) is an exercise in futility.
conjecture namely ??????????
kindly tell me what you dont understand and insha allah ill try to help you out !
if not then why say certain sura was revealed in makkah and certain in medina when you yourself is not sure !
and this is what our muslim brothers and sisters did ! what is wrong with that ?
"One of the manifestations of their rejecting the Book (of Allah behind their backs) (see Quran 2:101) is that they have fixed its words. but they have altered the limits (of its command) (harrafu hududah).
They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe(what) it (says).
dearest sister, read the above aayat again !!!!
it is you who reject the book not our sister branches...
it is you who said its a fairy tale not them
[please note that iam not pointing towards our ismaili brothers and sisters, iam talking about you as a person !]
plus when asked show me your quran if you have any apart from the current quran...you start giving us your man made innovations = HADITHS
there is no clarity in your arguement !
Ignorant people delight in their preservation of its narration, but the knowledgeable people deplore their ignoring to observe (what) it (says)."....(Ahl al Bayt)
, sister since you call yourself knowledgeable person i want you to interpret @ above aayat in you own words i hope you know who are people of the book !!! since you are sharp minded lemme tell you its the jews and christians(you will find the above in the Sh'ia books)
...."And when Allah took a Covenant from the People of the Book to clarify it to mankind and not to hide its (clarification); but they threw it away behind their backs and purchased with it some miserable gain! and what an evil was the bargain they made!"....(Quran 3:187)...
so sister how is @ above aayat related to our muslim brothers ????
We have sent among you a Messenger from you (minkum) who recites to you Our Signs and purifies you and teaches you the Book (al-Kitab) and the Wisdom (al-Hikmat) and teaches you that which you did not know. - Holy Quran 2:151
Even if anyone changes one simple word, it changes the context - if the context is destroyed then what else is left ?...
sister can you please tell me what are the signs of allah[swt] ??? @ above verse says "our signs" = allah's signs...your take on this please ???
When we study the TEXTS or NARRATIONS we find that the conjecture of the events behind individual verses of the Qur’an (Shaan-e-Nuzool) is an exercise in futility.
conjecture namely ??????????
Instead of explaining, it distorts the meaning and binds the timeless verses to some particular supposed incidents.
kindly tell me what you dont understand and insha allah ill try to help you out !
imam shah karim [as] lives in paris, he even travels to london and various parts of the world ! .....does that make any difference !!!Likewise, trying to establish whether a certain Surah was revealed in Makkah or Madinah is practically irrelevant to the Glorious Message.
if not then why say certain sura was revealed in makkah and certain in medina when you yourself is not sure !
if ibn sina used to think like you he wouldn't have become a physician, if you dont stive for something , you just dont get it !The so-called ‘Ulama’ and exponents wasted centuries in this fruitless endeavor and their blind followers keep doing the same.
and this is what our muslim brothers and sisters did ! what is wrong with that ?
sure !! just like your views and mine dont match , its the same thing with them !Yet, they have fierce disagreement on this non-issue to this day....so please join the bandwagon..
sister znanwalla said :
Quote:
One of the manifestations of their rejecting the Book (of Allah behind their backs) (see Quran 2:101) is that they have fixed its words. but they have altered the limits (of its command) (harrafu hududah).
They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe(what) it (says).
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No I haven't this...it is the Ahl al Bayt - so go back and read the post correctly and stop misleading lest you are just a hypocrite....
Muslims have no obligation to follow or accept interpolations and fabrications made by people like you and your so called "sisters"....our only obligation is to follow the quran of God as revealed and as preserved by the ITRAT of the Prophet....the rest is crap ! like thereof ! I reject it ! and so should all believers except the Munafiqun !
Quote:
One of the manifestations of their rejecting the Book (of Allah behind their backs) (see Quran 2:101) is that they have fixed its words. but they have altered the limits (of its command) (harrafu hududah).
They have (correctly) narrated it, but they do not observe(what) it (says).
*****************************************
No I haven't this...it is the Ahl al Bayt - so go back and read the post correctly and stop misleading lest you are just a hypocrite....
Muslims have no obligation to follow or accept interpolations and fabrications made by people like you and your so called "sisters"....our only obligation is to follow the quran of God as revealed and as preserved by the ITRAT of the Prophet....the rest is crap ! like thereof ! I reject it ! and so should all believers except the Munafiqun !
"...plus when asked show me your quran if you have any apart from the current quran..."
Seems like your understanding of the language or IQ is at a low level or you are on purpose offering twistyed versions of the truth....go back and read my posts and don't mis represent me....
There is no rule which says that I cannot refer or cross refer the texts or the narrations in the market....you want to see the quran then I have been catergorical in this regard....follow the Imam e Zamana !!! HE is the Natiq ! and the Samit goes hand in hand with the Natiq ! Hasn't the Imam said follow me I am the speaking quran? so what ignorance are you trying to display? Can't you see "the quran" when it is right in front of your eyes? Hasn't Allah said HE has confined it all in the Manifest Imam? now what more evidence do you need? go and follow your mullah please !
Seems like your understanding of the language or IQ is at a low level or you are on purpose offering twistyed versions of the truth....go back and read my posts and don't mis represent me....
There is no rule which says that I cannot refer or cross refer the texts or the narrations in the market....you want to see the quran then I have been catergorical in this regard....follow the Imam e Zamana !!! HE is the Natiq ! and the Samit goes hand in hand with the Natiq ! Hasn't the Imam said follow me I am the speaking quran? so what ignorance are you trying to display? Can't you see "the quran" when it is right in front of your eyes? Hasn't Allah said HE has confined it all in the Manifest Imam? now what more evidence do you need? go and follow your mullah please !
"..kindly tell me what you dont understand and insha allah ill try to help you out !..."
First help yourself ! I don't need any help from those who follow conjectures and half truths !
Allah has devoted an entire sura in the quran for people like you ...read that first and find the quran and stop calling man made creations as quran of God
First help yourself ! I don't need any help from those who follow conjectures and half truths !
Allah has devoted an entire sura in the quran for people like you ...read that first and find the quran and stop calling man made creations as quran of God
Virani, in reality you RESPECT forgeries and so you are deceptive - I have been abundantly clear that people have no obligations to follow any man made fabrications but only the Quran of God as revealed and you are still contesting....you are saying Messengership is eternal...yet you are unable to prove your statement other than making felicitous statements....you are saying quran is eternal but you are equating interpolations and fabrications and calling it the quran when it is a like thereof....you are deceiving people....I am not splitting anyone....I am showing them what others already know and what you are suppressing....you claim you are an Ismaili....I have serious doubts...
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shiraz.virani
- Posts: 1256
- Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 2:52 pm
Virani, in reality you RESPECT forgeries and so you are deceptive - I have been abundantly clear that people have no obligations to follow any man made fabrications but only the Quran of God as revealed and you are still contesting....you are saying Messengership is eternal...yet you are unable to prove your statement other than making felicitous statements....you are saying quran is eternal but you are equating interpolations and fabrications and calling it the quran when it is a like thereof....you are deceiving people....I am not splitting anyone....I am showing them what others already know and what you are suppressing....you claim you are an Ismaili....I have serious doubts...
and thats what iam telling you....show me your quran !!!
if your quran is different from what we[including ismailis] have then show it to us !
dont sing a song of fabrication , you the one who is not able to prove the existance of quran of god[which you claim is different]
iam asking you again......show me the quran of god !!!
64: 8 Believe, therefore, in Allah And His Apostle, and In the Light which We Have sent down. And Allah Is well acquainted With all that ye do.
64: 10 But those who reject Faith And treat Our Signs As falsehoods, they will be Companions of the Fire, To dwell therein for aye: And evil is that Goal.
Holy Quran Chapter 46 Surah Ahqaf verses 4-6: Prophet, say to them, "Have you ever seen them with open eyes those whom you invoke instead of Allah? Show me what they have created in the earth? Or have they any share in the creation and control of the heavens? Bring me a Book revealed before this, or produce some remnant of knowledge in support of your beliefs if you are truthful." And who could be further astray than the one who invokes, instead of Allah, those who cannot answer him till the Day of Resurrection. Nay, they are even UNAWARE THAT THEY ARE BEING INVOKED. And when all mankind shall be gathered together (on the Day of Qiyamah), they (the so called leaders and intercessors) will become enemies of those who invoked them and they will DISOWN THEIR WORSHIP!!!
Now read this...
5: 17 There hath come to you From Allah a (new) light And a perspicuous Book, - Go and find out the meaning of what is Perspicous? First of all the chronological order of what you call quran is not correct ...am I right?
Also isn't it clear to you that Allah had sent the Book? Now if HE had sent a Book then what was the need for scribes (half of whom had died already) to gather all the mushufs and put them together and called it quarn of God? answer me ! don't make accusations which are wild and derogatory....
dearest sister since you are sharp minded , lemme tell you that quran as and whole was naazil in rasool[saw]'s heart....if i whisper something in your ear, will shamsB know what iam talking ??
no !!!!!
similarly the duty of rasool[saw] was to deliver/convey the message and he used to do that !!
25:32 (Y. Ali) Those who reject Faith say: "Why is not the Qur'an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually.
The Arabic word 'Qur'an' comes from the root 'qara'a', which means to recite or recitation.
Recite was the command which the angel Jibril (Gabriel) asked Muhammad to do three times in July or August 610 C.E. in the Hira cave, situated three miles north-east of Makkah.
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shiraz.virani
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znanwalla said :
psst psst .......i would suggest you to stop reciting quranic verses from our holy dua because the surah and aayat that we read in current dua matches with the so called man made quran
if you stop giving us man made hadiths which you call authentic, ill stop pasting holy quran !!First help yourself ! I don't need any help from those who follow conjectures and half truths !
Allah has devoted an entire sura in the quran for people like you ...read that first and find the quran and stop calling man made creations as quran of God
psst psst .......i would suggest you to stop reciting quranic verses from our holy dua because the surah and aayat that we read in current dua matches with the so called man made quran