Imam is always present
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alinizar313
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Imam is always present
How does One know or feel that Imam is always with him.
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_thaillestlunatic_
- Posts: 179
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Imam's Presence
Closeness to the Imam occurs when there is a feeling of intense peace, joy, tranquility and ecstacy for no apparent reason and independant of any external circumstances. This gives a sense of contentment and strength that enables one to overcome any worldly misfortune and resist any evil temptation. It is by virtue of this exaltedness that individuals were able to advance culture in our history and MHI in his Farmans has alluded to this fact.
Pir Sadardeen has expressed these ideas in the following verses of the Ginans.
Ginan: sakhi Maari aatma naa Odhaar
sakhee sej anupam saar palang par vaaree re
hu(n) to preme piyaajee ke paas dukhddaa visaaree re..............2
O my Friend! I have spread a unique soft bed which serves as a perfect coach. Due to the nearness of my beloved in love, I have forgotten all my griefs.
sakhee hi(n)che hinnddollaa khaatt ke saas usaase re
maaraa a(n)gaddaa maa utthee chhe laher piyaajee ke paase re......3
O my Friend! My breath is swaying like a swing. Ripples of love gush within my body when I am near my Beloved.
Granth: Bujh Niranjan
re tu(n)hee ...
jees gurku(n) satagur kahu(n)
so ve bhae ghatt maa(n)e re;
jo ghattathee pragatt hoe,
to rome rome sukh paaere......................................IX
O You, ... The one whom I call the True Guide is really within us. When this fact is realised through the inner enlightenment, then one attains peace in every pore of his being(his/her whole being is immersed in peace and joy).
The following anectdote from the life of Mowlana Rumi also alludes to this.
Sultan Valad, our Master's(Rumi's) son, recounted: "One day I said to my father, 'The friends claim that when they do not see you it causes them pain and their inner joy disappears.' My father replied, 'Whoever does not feel joyful in my abscence does not really know me; the one who really knows me feels happy even without me; he will be suffused with me, with the thought of me, with my thought,' He added, 'Every time, my son, that you find yourself in a state of mystic sweetness know that this is me in you.'" Sultan Valad added, "This is why my father used to say,
When you look for me, look in the district of joy;
We are the inhabitants of the world of joy. - AFLAKI (From "Teachings of Rumi" by Andrew Harvey)
Pir Sadardeen has expressed these ideas in the following verses of the Ginans.
Ginan: sakhi Maari aatma naa Odhaar
sakhee sej anupam saar palang par vaaree re
hu(n) to preme piyaajee ke paas dukhddaa visaaree re..............2
O my Friend! I have spread a unique soft bed which serves as a perfect coach. Due to the nearness of my beloved in love, I have forgotten all my griefs.
sakhee hi(n)che hinnddollaa khaatt ke saas usaase re
maaraa a(n)gaddaa maa utthee chhe laher piyaajee ke paase re......3
O my Friend! My breath is swaying like a swing. Ripples of love gush within my body when I am near my Beloved.
Granth: Bujh Niranjan
re tu(n)hee ...
jees gurku(n) satagur kahu(n)
so ve bhae ghatt maa(n)e re;
jo ghattathee pragatt hoe,
to rome rome sukh paaere......................................IX
O You, ... The one whom I call the True Guide is really within us. When this fact is realised through the inner enlightenment, then one attains peace in every pore of his being(his/her whole being is immersed in peace and joy).
The following anectdote from the life of Mowlana Rumi also alludes to this.
Sultan Valad, our Master's(Rumi's) son, recounted: "One day I said to my father, 'The friends claim that when they do not see you it causes them pain and their inner joy disappears.' My father replied, 'Whoever does not feel joyful in my abscence does not really know me; the one who really knows me feels happy even without me; he will be suffused with me, with the thought of me, with my thought,' He added, 'Every time, my son, that you find yourself in a state of mystic sweetness know that this is me in you.'" Sultan Valad added, "This is why my father used to say,
When you look for me, look in the district of joy;
We are the inhabitants of the world of joy. - AFLAKI (From "Teachings of Rumi" by Andrew Harvey)
Research
Greetings! My name is Mikhael and my graduate degree relates to Isma'ili doctrine and Imamate. I have learned much from this forum and website generally, especially regarding the relationship between the Imam and his followers. While the "101 Ismaili Heroes" provided me with great insight, I wish to obtain additional directives issued by Aga Khan III or IV to his followers. If anyone can help, please email me at <A href="mailto:[email protected]">[email protected]</A>. Thank you.
Re: Imam is always present
alinizar313,alinizar313 wrote:How does One know or feel that Imam is always with him.
I am created from DNA of my father and mother.
Your question equates to "How do I know or feel that my parents are with me?"
My answer to your question is-- It is important to know that the Imam is in you just like the DNA of your parents are in you.
If he is in you, if he is you, where does the question of being with you arise.
(Reference Imam SMS Farman "Hae jamato, tame amara jism ccho...."
"tu usme voh tujme baher bheetar hai bharpur")
Shams
Re: Imam is always present
YAM Shamsu,shamsu wrote: My answer to your question is-- It is important to know that the Imam is in you just like the DNA of your parents are in you.
If he is in you, if he is you, where does the question of being with you arise.
(Reference Imam SMS Farman "Hae jamato, tame amara jism ccho...."
"tu usme voh tujme baher bheetar hai bharpur")
Shams
In my opinion this is a relevant question. We all perhaps 'know' about it because we have been told or heard or read about it. But how do you 'feel' about it so that it is a reality and not simply an idea or a concept? So that it becomes a source of assurance and strength and enables us to be Farman Bardari in the real sense.
We perhaps all know about it but do we feel it?
To know and to feel
YAM K,
Have you ever seen a guy trying to catch a moving bus. he is running as fast as he should to catch it.
What happens once he catches the bus, does he run anymore?
I think the wanting to feel God is like running after the bus and knowing God is to be on the bus.
Once you are on the bus why do you want to get off by reestablishing your wajud as seperate from him in order to feel him.
Do we ever feel our DNA, but we know that our entire body was created from that DNA.
Knowing trumps feeling in my opinion.
Feeling is illusion.
Knowing is reality.
Peace
Shams
Have you ever seen a guy trying to catch a moving bus. he is running as fast as he should to catch it.
What happens once he catches the bus, does he run anymore?
I think the wanting to feel God is like running after the bus and knowing God is to be on the bus.
Once you are on the bus why do you want to get off by reestablishing your wajud as seperate from him in order to feel him.
Do we ever feel our DNA, but we know that our entire body was created from that DNA.
Knowing trumps feeling in my opinion.
Feeling is illusion.
Knowing is reality.
Peace
Shams
Re: To know and to feel
YAM Shamshushamsu wrote:YAM K,
I think the wanting to feel God is like running after the bus and knowing God is to be on the bus.
Once you are on the bus why do you want to get off by reestablishing your wajud as seperate from him in order to feel him.
Shams
Doing Bayat puts us on board the bus in your analogy. That does not mean that we are all Haqiqati in the real sense. Otherwise we would not need Ibaadat. It is only through spiritual enlightenment that we get the real knowledge of Imams presence in my opinion. Otherwise it is all theory.
That's why MHI says in his farmans that you will become really Imani through the experience.
Peace
In his BUK farmans
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alinizar313
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:17 pm
Feeling of Imam in your Heart
Ya Ali Madad Everybody
We say that we feel joy in our heart if Imam is with us. But I think it is not neccessary because whenever we get some worldly or monatory benefits, we feel happiness and that doesn't show that Imam is with me. The strange thing is that Imam is always with you as mentioned by MHI in his London Firman (1994) but we are unaware of that. Now we see the answer in the light of Firman.
Imam Sultan Mohammed shah said in his firman (KIM 1) "Haqiqati momin see God everywhere. God resides in the heart of Haqiqati momin. The heart of Haqiqati Momin is the residence of Imam. Momin can not do bad deeds in the presence of God. Momin knows that God is looking at, then how can a Momin do bad deeds in the domain of God? He will not but will do good deeds. He will not do bad deeds."
Now the answer is very simple . If we still involves in bad deeds ( Budaamal), it means we do not feel Imam in our heart and vice versa.
Only our Naik Aamal witnessed that we are with Imam.
Imam S.M.S said in his firman " Aamal ni bajamarin te rooh ni Mulaqat chhaiy". It means the implementation of your Deed is the Mulaqat of your Soul.
We say that we feel joy in our heart if Imam is with us. But I think it is not neccessary because whenever we get some worldly or monatory benefits, we feel happiness and that doesn't show that Imam is with me. The strange thing is that Imam is always with you as mentioned by MHI in his London Firman (1994) but we are unaware of that. Now we see the answer in the light of Firman.
Imam Sultan Mohammed shah said in his firman (KIM 1) "Haqiqati momin see God everywhere. God resides in the heart of Haqiqati momin. The heart of Haqiqati Momin is the residence of Imam. Momin can not do bad deeds in the presence of God. Momin knows that God is looking at, then how can a Momin do bad deeds in the domain of God? He will not but will do good deeds. He will not do bad deeds."
Now the answer is very simple . If we still involves in bad deeds ( Budaamal), it means we do not feel Imam in our heart and vice versa.
Only our Naik Aamal witnessed that we are with Imam.
Imam S.M.S said in his firman " Aamal ni bajamarin te rooh ni Mulaqat chhaiy". It means the implementation of your Deed is the Mulaqat of your Soul.
Yaadgiri
Imam SMS farman-Yaadgiri rakhwa no kaam gano kathin cche.
The awareness comes from rememberance also known as zikr.
MHI has a farman where he says that when you think of me I am with you.
At first you do zikr to become aware of Aly.
zikr is also like calling Aly.
When your awareness develops you know Aly is present.
The question now is
Do you call upon he who is already present ?
The awareness comes from rememberance also known as zikr.
MHI has a farman where he says that when you think of me I am with you.
At first you do zikr to become aware of Aly.
zikr is also like calling Aly.
When your awareness develops you know Aly is present.
The question now is
Do you call upon he who is already present ?
Last edited by shamsu on Mon Aug 30, 2004 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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alinizar313
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:17 pm
Imam is always with you
In continuation of my last post:
But the question arises how can we do good deeds? Inspite of our intention to do naik aamal, we failed. Why? Now we seek our answer in firman. Imam S.M.S said in firman # 125 regarding the pakizgi of our Aamal. Mowla said " Aamal paak te shoo? anaiy te kevi ritait thai. Aamal paak rakhwa maataiy hamaisha Yadgiri rakhwi joiye. Aa Yadgiri rakhvanu kaam gharoon kathan tetha mushkil chhaiy. Karan ke shaitan teni poothai lagelo hoi chhaiy, faqat haqirati Mominaj tena faraib thi bachi shakaiy chhaiy." It means what does Paak Aamal means? and how will it become Paak?It requires yaadgiri ( rememberance) to keep Aamal Paak. It is very cumbersome and difficult to keep 'rememberance'. Because Satan is always after you. Only Haqiqati Momin can get rid of his Temptation.
This firman shows that only continuous rememberance of God and continuous checking of oneself regarding budaamal can help in purifying our deeds.
"Dil ka mehl kaise jawaiy. Dil ka mehl zikaroon jaawaiy"
" Jiyare Ilm jeva Aamal thaae tiyare Aatmanu sawroop sampooran thae chhaiy". It means when your Action will be like Knowledge then the form of your Soul get perfection ( Nasir Khusraw).
" Dil na aarisa per thi shak ane kusoonka na kaat ne yaqin ni jhaadoo wadaiy jhatpi ne loosi naakho and Ilm tatha hikmat na paarin thi tenaiy dhota raho ke jethi tamaiy tamara dil na Aarisa ma khoodawantaala nu Noor jota Raho" ( Pir Pandiyat-e- Jawanmardi). It means " clean the dirt of you doubt and disbelief from the mirror of your heart with the broom of your Faith( Iman) and wash it with the water of Ilm and Hikmat so that you can manifest the Noor of Khudavind in the mirror of your heart.
To be continued
But the question arises how can we do good deeds? Inspite of our intention to do naik aamal, we failed. Why? Now we seek our answer in firman. Imam S.M.S said in firman # 125 regarding the pakizgi of our Aamal. Mowla said " Aamal paak te shoo? anaiy te kevi ritait thai. Aamal paak rakhwa maataiy hamaisha Yadgiri rakhwi joiye. Aa Yadgiri rakhvanu kaam gharoon kathan tetha mushkil chhaiy. Karan ke shaitan teni poothai lagelo hoi chhaiy, faqat haqirati Mominaj tena faraib thi bachi shakaiy chhaiy." It means what does Paak Aamal means? and how will it become Paak?It requires yaadgiri ( rememberance) to keep Aamal Paak. It is very cumbersome and difficult to keep 'rememberance'. Because Satan is always after you. Only Haqiqati Momin can get rid of his Temptation.
This firman shows that only continuous rememberance of God and continuous checking of oneself regarding budaamal can help in purifying our deeds.
"Dil ka mehl kaise jawaiy. Dil ka mehl zikaroon jaawaiy"
" Jiyare Ilm jeva Aamal thaae tiyare Aatmanu sawroop sampooran thae chhaiy". It means when your Action will be like Knowledge then the form of your Soul get perfection ( Nasir Khusraw).
" Dil na aarisa per thi shak ane kusoonka na kaat ne yaqin ni jhaadoo wadaiy jhatpi ne loosi naakho and Ilm tatha hikmat na paarin thi tenaiy dhota raho ke jethi tamaiy tamara dil na Aarisa ma khoodawantaala nu Noor jota Raho" ( Pir Pandiyat-e- Jawanmardi). It means " clean the dirt of you doubt and disbelief from the mirror of your heart with the broom of your Faith( Iman) and wash it with the water of Ilm and Hikmat so that you can manifest the Noor of Khudavind in the mirror of your heart.
To be continued
Ajampia jamp and farman bardari
I agree absolutely with Alinizar313 that the surest way to know that you are with the Imam is through Farman Bardari. As a matter of fact in His presence it is impossible to be nafarmani. Prophet says in the following Hadith
"God says: My servant draws not so nigh Me, as by performing what I have ordained for him to do: but through works of supererogation ( performance of more than duty) he continues to draw nigh unto Me, until I love him; and when I love him, I am for him both hearing and sight, hand and helper. He calls Me, and I answer him: he counsels Me, and I counsel him."
In one of the Ginan verses quoted by Shamshu in another forum Pir says "Ajampia Jaap vina sarve kaam kuraa". It is only through the experience of Ajampia Jamp that you get the experience of His presence and thereby derive the 'himmat" (strength) to be on Siratul Mustaqeem. It is the experience of Ajampia Jamp which results from spiritual enlightenment that one gets the actual experience of His presence and love and hence the strength to be on Siratul Mustaqueem.
Simply remembering him and being aware of him is not Ajampia Jamp (Refer to the Ginan Bhraham Prakash). Without Ajampia Jamp remembrance does not give that assurance of his presence. Without Ajampia Jamp remembrance or awareness are merely concepts or ideas.
"God says: My servant draws not so nigh Me, as by performing what I have ordained for him to do: but through works of supererogation ( performance of more than duty) he continues to draw nigh unto Me, until I love him; and when I love him, I am for him both hearing and sight, hand and helper. He calls Me, and I answer him: he counsels Me, and I counsel him."
In one of the Ginan verses quoted by Shamshu in another forum Pir says "Ajampia Jaap vina sarve kaam kuraa". It is only through the experience of Ajampia Jamp that you get the experience of His presence and thereby derive the 'himmat" (strength) to be on Siratul Mustaqeem. It is the experience of Ajampia Jamp which results from spiritual enlightenment that one gets the actual experience of His presence and love and hence the strength to be on Siratul Mustaqueem.
Simply remembering him and being aware of him is not Ajampia Jamp (Refer to the Ginan Bhraham Prakash). Without Ajampia Jamp remembrance does not give that assurance of his presence. Without Ajampia Jamp remembrance or awareness are merely concepts or ideas.
Buj Nirinjan
What happens if an aashiq of Aly sees him in everthing, In good and in evil, in love and in hate, in farmanbardari and in nafarmani?
The answer is in the above mentioned granth
The answer is in the above mentioned granth
Re: Buj Nirinjan
YAM Samshu,shamsu wrote:What happens if an aashiq of Aly sees him in everthing, In good and in evil, in love and in hate, in farmanbardari and in nafarmani?
The answer is in the above mentioned granth
Please quote the appropriate references from Bujh Niranjan. It helps...
When the Lord says "when I love him, I am for him both hearing and sight, hand and helper" how can an action stemming from that hand be Nafarmani. I can appreciate the ralativity of good and evil. But from the Haqiqati stand point every act is farmani regardless of whether it appears good or evil. For example Pandavs killing the Korvas was Farmanbardari although it appeared evil.
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alinizar313
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:17 pm
Re: Buj Nirinjan
<BR>I think this is the o­ne you are looking for:<BR><PRE>re tu(n)hee, ...kmaherali wrote:<BR><BR>YAM Samshu,<BR><BR>Please quote the appropriate references from Bujh Niranjan. It helps...<BR><BR>When the Lord says "when I love him, I am for him both hearing and sight, hand and helper" how can an action stemming from that hand be Nafarmani. I can appreciate the ralativity of good and evil. But from the Haqiqati stand point every act is farmani regardless of whether it appears good or evil. For example Pandavs killing the Korvas was Farmanbardari although it appeared evil.shamsu wrote:What happens if an aashiq of Aly sees him in everthing, In good and in evil, in love and in hate, in farmanbardari and in nafarmani?<BR><BR>The answer is in the above mentioned granth
kaasu(n) reesu(n) kaasu(n) meelu(n)
kaasu(n) laavu(n) chit re;
naen tihaare chaahku(n)
ehee veree ehee mit re........................................XX
</PRE>O You, ... Whom can I be angry with, whom can I meet and whom can I bring to my attention. For my vision is blurred with Your deedar, (and everything seems rosy and peaceful) that friends and enemies are o­ne.<BR>As far as Shamsu's point of view regarding living within Ali, that is the stage after the Pakizgi of Aamal. As mentioned by Kmaherali, the Ajampia Jaanp is first used o­nly to clean our heart thru purifying of our Aamal. And when heart get cleaned, then we can clearly see our actual face and that is nobody but Almighty Himself and when you see Him then real love start flourish through Ajampia Jaanp and that is called 'Batuni Ibadat". Imam S.M.S says in his firman " Taiy ibadat shoo chhaiy, taim shoo thai chhaiy anaiy te kevi ritaiy thai chhaiy te ketla naiy khabar pade chhiay, Tamaiy hamesha gaflat ma chho". It means what is that Ibadat? And what happen in that and how does it happen, that a few people can know (seek). You are always in ignorance.
<P> </P>
Re: Buj Nirinjan
Thanks for quoting this verse.alinizar313 wrote:kaasu(n) reesu(n) kaasu(n) meelu(n)
kaasu(n) laavu(n) chit re;
naen tihaare chaahku(n)
ehee veree ehee mit re........................................XX
O You, ... Whom can I be angry with, whom can I meet and whom can I bring to my attention. For my vision is blurred with Your deedar, (and everything seems rosy and peaceful) that friends and enemies are one.
When in an enlightened state as mentioned in the hadith the Lord becomes the hearing and the sight, hand and helper. In that situation how can you see good and evil, enemy and friend.
As you mentioned this is this the real IBAADAT and Ibaadat by definition is farmanbardari. There cannot be nafarmani because He becomes the hand. When Mansoor in his ecstacy said "Anal Haq", it was considered by others as evil, yet as far as he was concerned it was farmanbardari.
Farmanbardari is independant of good and evil in conventional sense.
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alinizar313
- Posts: 112
- Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2003 9:17 pm
Re: Buj Nirinjan
Absolutely correct. There is no doubt about that. And when you completly come under the umbrella of Farmanbardari, it completes your IMAN. Iman means complete faith on his firman.kmaherali wrote:Thanks for quoting this verse.alinizar313 wrote:kaasu(n) reesu(n) kaasu(n) meelu(n)
kaasu(n) laavu(n) chit re;
naen tihaare chaahku(n)
ehee veree ehee mit re........................................XX
O You, ... Whom can I be angry with, whom can I meet and whom can I bring to my attention. For my vision is blurred with Your deedar, (and everything seems rosy and peaceful) that friends and enemies are one.
When in an enlightened state as mentioned in the hadith the Lord becomes the hearing and the sight, hand and helper. In that situation how can you see good and evil, enemy and friend.
As you mentioned this is this the real IBAADAT and Ibaadat by definition is farmanbardari. There cannot be nafarmani because He becomes the hand. When Mansoor in his ecstacy said "Anal Haq", it was considered by others as evil, yet as far as he was concerned it was farmanbardari.
Farmanbardari is independant of good and evil in conventional sense.