Belief in Allah

sheza · Post by **sheza** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:18 am

I do not beleive in Allah/God etc. Can I still call myself Ismaili? If you ask why i would want to do that the answer is for social acceptability. unfortunately the Ismaili community to some extent view kafirs as unmoral and unethical making it very difficult for my parents to find a half-decent rishta

--- · Post by **---** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:34 am

Thats a good question. Im not sure how it works but i thought i would share of my thoughts to make it easier. I know someone who is an ismaili and has the same view - does not believe in God. Sultan Mohammad Shah said that you if you want to stay in the faith you cannot wish to reform it. Everyone has their own beliefs and it is okay to think one way or another. It is okay to believe in one thing and then swtich to another. From my own personal experience there had been a time when i wanted to leave the ismaili faith until i understood how wrong i was and chose not want to leave. So peoples beliefs are likely to change from time to time and that does not mean that they should be punished by being taken out of the faith. Thats what I think. How it works is something i have no idea about.

samirnoorali · Post by **samirnoorali** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:50 am

Dear Sheza:

I understand where you’re coming from when you said that you don’t believe in Allah or God. It is important to realize that your thoughts are not wrong, nor should anybody say that you`re wrong. Having said that, you can still be an Ismaili or you may deside otherwise, but know that inquiry and doubts are perfectly healthy.

Your situation is similar to a marriage, if I may use that analogy. If the marriage is not working out we wonder what society will think of us. It is more healthy to part ways in peace rather to remain and feel disconnected. Who knows, perhaps in the future things may seem more clearer. But to stay as an Ismaili and feel no connection with the Imam is a relationship not worth being in.

One sign of encouragement is that you came to this forum to discuss your concern. I would encourage you to dialog with members of this site, as they are intelligent and willing to help. Perhaps through dialog you can come to a better resolution. If not, then I wish you the very best.

Sincerely,

Samir Noorali

sheza · Post by **sheza** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:57 am

Thank you for your responses.

@---:
"punishment" is a bit strong, i would certainly not feel punished, a little disappointed maybe if someone told me that you can not call yourself Ismaili and not come to JK.

I am open to the suggestion (and somewhat hopeful) that one day i also understand what all the hype is about and become a beleiver again. but its not likely.

Can you share the circumstances that made you want to leave the faith and then stopped you?

@Samir:

To be honest its a bit more than social acceptability. infact i am blissfully married to a very understanding spouse and have a son. I take him to JK.
We will enroll him in religious center when he's old enough. I want to give him every opportunity to experience the faith and culture of his family and decide for himself when he is old enough.

So i guess the next question is why am i here. I am here mostly to share and discuss my situation, hoping to find some sort of balance.

enzuru · Post by **enzuru** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:00 am

Ya `Ali madaad,

Our friend Samir Noorali is correct. Don't worry, don't become upset. Imam Muhammad Sultan Shah said that whoever considers themselves Ismaili to to be considered Ismaili.

The God of Islam, of Ismailism, is not like the God as understood in other faiths. In many other faiths, God is an angry old man who destroys civilizations and becomes human. This is not the God of Islam, nor of civilization. Even Sunni Muslims would attack the Ismaili conception of Islam because it was so different, so unique, and because it used logic.

Do you believe that morality is objective (murder is wrong period) or subjective (murder is only wrong if you consider it wrong)? Because believing morality is objective is enough in Ismailism to believe in the God of Islam. If you believe in reality (that this isn't all a dream), you believe in God, and if you believe something transcends reality, then you have already almost perfected the exact idea of God as exists in Ismailism.

Even if you are an atheist according to most faiths, remember, Islam does not believe in men in the sky. It believes in a force, in a system of morals, and in logic. That is God. You might not be as big of an atheist as you think.

--- · Post by **---** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:49 am

To Sheza

The reason i wanted to leave the faith was because i had trouble believing in Hazrat Ali. I now know that i was completely wrong. I believed in Hazar Imam but I had trouble believing in Hazrat Ali. You can see that it lacks harmony. Its a contradiction. They are the same. They both had the same Nour - light, that we follow. So you see that i have some things to sort out myself.

sheza · Post by **sheza** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 7:29 am

Hi enzuru:

I can not agree with either a personal or non-personal God for different reasons.

I would argue that your God (a non-personal God) is not the God of most Ismailis I know. its also not the God of Abrahamic faiths. Specially in Ismailism most beleive that Imam is God or his noor.

Your questions about morality and conciousness are very important. I can not answer with certanity for now.

I dont call myself an atheist, maybe agnostic.

Saima · Post by **Saima** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:30 am

Sheza,

Once Prophet Muhammad was asked "What is the best Islam?" In his response, "The best Islam is when you live in peace among the people you know and among the people you do not know." Notice, the "best Islam" is not praying to the Lord day and night, in fact, it is living ethically amongst God's other creations.

On the other hand, the Kalimah is the basis of any or all Muslims. For one to be a Muslim, they must beleive in Kalimah which starts by saying "There is no diety but Allah."

A spiritual journey is ones own personal search, personal journey. Your current stage may or may not be the lack of understanding of the Ismaili faith. If it is the lack of knowledge, then I would encourage you to make a humble attempt of learning more about this faith. At the end of the day, it is your call of what you would like to go in your spiritual journey.

Best wishes,
Saima

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:57 pm

sheza wrote:I do not beleive in Allah/God etc. Can I still call myself Ismaili? If you ask why i would want to do that the answer is for social acceptability. unfortunately the Ismaili community to some extent view kafirs as unmoral and unethical making it very difficult for my parents to find a half-decent rishta :(

. There are two many Ismailis who are not belive in Allah, Prophet, our first and current Imams but they are call themselves an Ismailies or our community call them Ismailis even they do not come Jamat Khana at all, does not Pray Dua, does not give Dasond, does not say YAM. So I do not see any big problem if you call yourself an Ismaili and do not belive in Almighty Allah. But I would like to know why are you not beliving in Allah/God? even though this is your personal matter and nobody has any right to ask you for the reason but I insist you please give me reason, may be I can e-mail you something which might change your belives and you may start to belive in god again, If you no mind to tell me please e-mail me your reason at [email protected] ( please do not forget to put _ between agakhani and 786 which is not shown here due to underline.

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 1:34 pm

I would argue that your God (a non-personal God) is not the God of most Ismailis I know. its also not the God of Abrahamic faiths. Specially in Ismailism most beleive that Imam is God or his noor.

sister there is a verse in holy quran where allah says :

Among them are some who listen to thee: but canst thou make the deaf to hear even though they are without understanding? Among them are some who look at thee: but canst thou guide the blind even though they will not see? (Yunus 10:42-43)

this aayat is espically used for people like you sister who wants to be ismaili but dont wanna believe or understand the concept of allah or his created.

lemme ask you this , whats the purpose of your creation ??? why did god created you ???

i know there are so many naam ka ismailis throughout the world but just because they dont believe in allah does that mean ismailism had no allah or different allah ????

allah is h.ibrahim[as] is same as allah of ismailis, if you read quran allah made a covenant with h.ibrahim[as] and his progeny [surah 2:124] , how can allah break his covenant ??

quran is filled with wisdom but the problem with most of my ismaili brothers and sisters is they dont wanna read it because they think its incomplete [which is not the case]

This argument may seem like a trivial point, but it is important to remember that the Prophet Muhammad’s uncle Abu Talib, one of the most beloved people in the world to him, was not guided to Islam before his death. The Prophet had spoken to his uncle about Islam and prayed for him countless times, yet nevertheless, the Messenger of Allah himself was powerless to convince him. My dear sister you are doing the same mistake, you wanna live among us as ismaili but you dont wanna believe in allah just like rasool [saw] uncle ABU TALIB

Allah’s existence is so obvious that many people cannot perceive Him. An analogy can be made with light: We are able to perceive the existence of light because of its contrast with darkness and shadow. Were there to be no darkness, we would only see light, which would be so obvious and all encompassing that we might not be able to identify it as a separate entity. In the same way, Allah’s light never diminishes or fades, and there is nothing to oppose or counter it. Just like the hypothetical light that knows no shadow, Allah is so obvious that many people fail to notice Him.

the real problem with our ismaili brothers and sisters is that a person whose iman (faith) is based upon the Qur’an’s miraculous mention of the expansion of the universe, for instance, has little iman at all !!!!! , in fact. Rather, his heart is saying, “Scientific knowledge is absolute truth; thus if the Qur’an confirms it, then it must be a part of truth also.” If such an “iman” is not supplemented and reinforced by something more experiential, it will quickly fade.

you rule your body but yet you dont own it !!!
there are signs for those who use intellect

YaAliYaMowla · Post by **YaAliYaMowla** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 3:46 pm

shiraz.virani wrote:
I would argue that your God (a non-personal God) is not the God of most Ismailis I know. its also not the God of Abrahamic faiths. Specially in Ismailism most beleive that Imam is God or his noor.

sister there is a verse in holy quran where allah says :

Among them are some who listen to thee: but canst thou make the deaf to hear even though they are without understanding? Among them are some who look at thee: but canst thou guide the blind even though they will not see? (Yunus 10:42-43)

this aayat is espically used for people like you sister who wants to be ismaili but dont wanna believe or understand the concept of allah or his created.

lemme ask you this , whats the purpose of your creation ??? why did god created you ???

i know there are so many naam ka ismailis throughout the world but just because they dont believe in allah does that mean ismailism had no allah or different allah ????

allah is h.ibrahim[as] is same as allah of ismailis, if you read quran allah made a covenant with h.ibrahim[as] and his progeny [surah 2:124] , how can allah break his covenant ??

quran is filled with wisdom but the problem with most of my ismaili brothers and sisters is they dont wanna read it because they think its incomplete [which is not the case]

This argument may seem like a trivial point, but it is important to remember that the Prophet Muhammad’s uncle Abu Talib, one of the most beloved people in the world to him, was not guided to Islam before his death. The Prophet had spoken to his uncle about Islam and prayed for him countless times, yet nevertheless, the Messenger of Allah himself was powerless to convince him. My dear sister you are doing the same mistake, you wanna live among us as ismaili but you dont wanna believe in allah just like rasool [saw] uncle ABU TALIB

Allah’s existence is so obvious that many people cannot perceive Him. An analogy can be made with light: We are able to perceive the existence of light because of its contrast with darkness and shadow. Were there to be no darkness, we would only see light, which would be so obvious and all encompassing that we might not be able to identify it as a separate entity. In the same way, Allah’s light never diminishes or fades, and there is nothing to oppose or counter it. Just like the hypothetical light that knows no shadow, Allah is so obvious that many people fail to notice Him.

the real problem with our ismaili brothers and sisters is that a person whose iman (faith) is based upon the Qur’an’s miraculous mention of the expansion of the universe, for instance, has little iman at all !!!!! , in fact. Rather, his heart is saying, “Scientific knowledge is absolute truth; thus if the Qur’an confirms it, then it must be a part of truth also.” If such an “iman” is not supplemented and reinforced by something more experiential, it will quickly fade.

you rule your body but yet you dont own it !!!
there are signs for those who use intellect

Your general point is ok, but Mowlana Ali's father was Imam. Imam Abu Talib. What you read from these sunni sources are uninformed and there were reasons why Imam Abu Talib did not openly accept Islam in the beginning. For political reasons and to protect Prophet Muhammad (saws) from the Quraish, Imam Abu Talib had to do what he did.

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:02 pm

YaAliYaMowla wrote:
shiraz.virani wrote:
I would argue that your God (a non-personal God) is not the God of most Ismailis I know. its also not the God of Abrahamic faiths. Specially in Ismailism most beleive that Imam is God or his noor.

sister there is a verse in holy quran where allah says :

Among them are some who listen to thee: but canst thou make the deaf to hear even though they are without understanding? Among them are some who look at thee: but canst thou guide the blind even though they will not see? (Yunus 10:42-43)

this aayat is espically used for people like you sister who wants to be ismaili but dont wanna believe or understand the concept of allah or his created.

lemme ask you this , whats the purpose of your creation ??? why did god created you ???

i know there are so many naam ka ismailis throughout the world but just because they dont believe in allah does that mean ismailism had no allah or different allah ????

allah is h.ibrahim[as] is same as allah of ismailis, if you read quran allah made a covenant with h.ibrahim[as] and his progeny [surah 2:124] , how can allah break his covenant ??

quran is filled with wisdom but the problem with most of my ismaili brothers and sisters is they dont wanna read it because they think its incomplete [which is not the case]

This argument may seem like a trivial point, but it is important to remember that the Prophet Muhammad’s uncle Abu Talib, one of the most beloved people in the world to him, was not guided to Islam before his death. The Prophet had spoken to his uncle about Islam and prayed for him countless times, yet nevertheless, the Messenger of Allah himself was powerless to convince him. My dear sister you are doing the same mistake, you wanna live among us as ismaili but you dont wanna believe in allah just like rasool [saw] uncle ABU TALIB

Allah’s existence is so obvious that many people cannot perceive Him. An analogy can be made with light: We are able to perceive the existence of light because of its contrast with darkness and shadow. Were there to be no darkness, we would only see light, which would be so obvious and all encompassing that we might not be able to identify it as a separate entity. In the same way, Allah’s light never diminishes or fades, and there is nothing to oppose or counter it. Just like the hypothetical light that knows no shadow, Allah is so obvious that many people fail to notice Him.

the real problem with our ismaili brothers and sisters is that a person whose iman (faith) is based upon the Qur’an’s miraculous mention of the expansion of the universe, for instance, has little iman at all !!!!! , in fact. Rather, his heart is saying, “Scientific knowledge is absolute truth; thus if the Qur’an confirms it, then it must be a part of truth also.” If such an “iman” is not supplemented and reinforced by something more experiential, it will quickly fade.

you rule your body but yet you dont own it !!!
there are signs for those who use intellect
Your general point is ok, but Mowlana Ali's father was Imam. Imam Abu Talib. What you read from these sunni sources are uninformed and there were reasons why Imam Abu Talib did not openly accept Islam in the beginning. For political reasons and to protect Prophet Muhammad (saws) from the Quraish, Imam Abu Talib had to do what he did.

I'd also refer you to read Tusi's work which preceded the Satpanthi/Bhakti period of the Khoja Ismailies - there is extensive discussion on Pre Ali'd Imams - Kmaherali has made reference to some excellent texts in another post.

Shams

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:29 pm

thank you bro yaaliyamawla and bro shamsB i will surely check it out and if i have any doubts ill let you know

plus @ above was just the example to show our sister that believe in allah is a must... i might be wrong about abu talib as to whether he was a believer or unbeliever and i agree with you to quite some extent because

i think it was abu talib who recited the nikah of our rasool[saw] , isnt it ?? now how can an unbeliever do the nikah of rasool[saw]??

it can be that either rasool[saw] allowed him or

he was a muslim

Shazia80 · Post by **Shazia80** » Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:28 pm

Sheza, Please clarify your situation: 1. you dont believe in Allah but you belive in Imam 2. You dont belive in either 3. Since you dont believe in Allah there is no question of beliving Imam? I really appreciate that you dont impose your views on your family and help your child in experiencing faith !!!!! I think that is the way it should be ..... you give oppourtunity and leave the rest to the individual! anyways, as asked by some one else also Why you dont believe in Allah?

sheza · Post by **sheza** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:07 am

Saima wrote:Sheza,
A spiritual journey is ones own personal search, personal journey. Your current stage may or may not be the lack of understanding of the Ismaili faith. If it is the lack of knowledge, then I would encourage you to make a humble attempt of learning more about this faith. At the end of the day, it is your call of what you would like to go in your spiritual journey.
Best wishes,
Saima

I dont have a problem specifically with the Ismaili faith, I think its teachings are very tolerant and peaceful. learning more about the faith would be useless for someone like me who doesnt beleive in the first premise i.e. Tawheed. dont you think?

sheza · Post by **sheza** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:43 am

[quote="agakhani But I would like to know why are you not beliving in Allah/God? even though this is your personal matter and nobody has any right to ask you for the reason but I insist you please give me reason, may be I can e-mail you something which might change your belives and you may start to belive in god again, If you no mind to tell me please e-mail me your reason at [email protected] ( please do not forget to put _ between agakhani and 786 which is not shown here due to underline.[/quote]

I have a few reasons, but I could ask you if you have any reason to beleive? or is it just faith. I ask this because alot of people dont think its possible to have a "logical" reason to beleive in God's existence.

sheza · Post by **sheza** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:26 am

shiraz.virani wrote:
I would argue that your God (a non-personal God) is not the God of most Ismailis I know. its also not the God of Abrahamic faiths. Specially in Ismailism most beleive that Imam is God or his noor.

sister there is a verse in holy quran where allah says :

Among them are some who listen to thee: but canst thou make the deaf to hear even though they are without understanding? Among them are some who look at thee: but canst thou guide the blind even though they will not see? (Yunus 10:42-43)

this aayat is espically used for people like you sister who wants to be ismaili but dont wanna believe or understand the concept of allah or his created.

lemme ask you this , whats the purpose of your creation ??? why did god created you ???

i know there are so many naam ka ismailis throughout the world but just because they dont believe in allah does that mean ismailism had no allah or different allah ????

allah is h.ibrahim[as] is same as allah of ismailis, if you read quran allah made a covenant with h.ibrahim[as] and his progeny [surah 2:124] , how can allah break his covenant ??

quran is filled with wisdom but the problem with most of my ismaili brothers and sisters is they dont wanna read it because they think its incomplete [which is not the case]

This argument may seem like a trivial point, but it is important to remember that the Prophet Muhammad’s uncle Abu Talib, one of the most beloved people in the world to him, was not guided to Islam before his death. The Prophet had spoken to his uncle about Islam and prayed for him countless times, yet nevertheless, the Messenger of Allah himself was powerless to convince him. My dear sister you are doing the same mistake, you wanna live among us as ismaili but you dont wanna believe in allah just like rasool [saw] uncle ABU TALIB

Allah’s existence is so obvious that many people cannot perceive Him. An analogy can be made with light: We are able to perceive the existence of light because of its contrast with darkness and shadow. Were there to be no darkness, we would only see light, which would be so obvious and all encompassing that we might not be able to identify it as a separate entity. In the same way, Allah’s light never diminishes or fades, and there is nothing to oppose or counter it. Just like the hypothetical light that knows no shadow, Allah is so obvious that many people fail to notice Him.

the real problem with our ismaili brothers and sisters is that a person whose iman (faith) is based upon the Qur’an’s miraculous mention of the expansion of the universe, for instance, has little iman at all !!!!! , in fact. Rather, his heart is saying, “Scientific knowledge is absolute truth; thus if the Qur’an confirms it, then it must be a part of truth also.” If such an “iman” is not supplemented and reinforced by something more experiential, it will quickly fade.

you rule your body but yet you dont own it !!!
there are signs for those who use intellect

Thank you shiraz for the detaied response.
when I spoke of a personal vs. non-personal God, i was merely answering enzuru.

I understand the concept of Allah in Islam, but i dont beleive in it.
His existence is not obvious at all. if it was why would there be need for the messengers and Imams and divine texts.

The verse you quoted, can easily imply to you aswell: you can see there is not God but you still decide to beleive since its a convenient to beleive in God. So not sure what you are trying to imply.

Are you saying that only the people who "experience the presence of God" have true Iman?

sheza · Post by **sheza** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:39 am

Shazia80 wrote:Sheza,Please clarify your situation: 1. you dont believe in Allah but you belive in Imam 2. You dont belive in either 3. Since you dont believe in Allah there is no question of beliving Imam?

I really appreciate that you dont impose your views on your family and help your child in experiencing faith !!!!! I think that is the way it should be ..... you give oppourtunity and leave the rest to the individual!anyways, as asked by some one else also Why you dont believe in Allah?

Hi Shazia80,
there are some who dont make the distinction between Allah and Imam. But to answer your question lets assume there is a difference.

I dont beleive in a persoanl tri-omi god (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrahamic_ ... ons_of_God)

Since I dont beleive in God, I dont have any reason to beleive in intercession.

From_Alamut · Post by **From_Alamut** » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:16 pm

Islam is not a new religion; Islam has been begun when the first Adam(Peace be upon him and his progeny) was created with intellect {Agili Kul}. From there, his best progeny descend until modern era. During each Natiq there were always a Wasi in order to interpret the Canon {Sharia} law of its era in allegorical interpretation. Almost 1,240,000 Prophets (Peace be upon them and their progeny) passed way. The Natiq comes only as periodically as a warner but the Wasi is always present as an eternal guide.... I mean the Imam is always present, as the seal of the Prophet, Hazrat Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him and his progeny) said that the world cannot exist for a moment without an Imam of the Time..... Therefore, When Prophet Mohammad(asa) brought Islam, it only means in the eyes of zahir people as a new form of religion but in batini form, Islam is the protection of ALL RELIGIONS and not a new religion. Islam is the religion of monotheism. Any Shia Ismaili Muslim brothers or sisters who looks at the physical body of Imam of the Time (s.a) as Allah in Zahir form, he/she is 100% wrong. Well in Shariati Zahiri level, the Imam(sa) is as a human like us but in batini he is a pure Marifat as infallible. Since, our Beloved Imam of the Time is the manifestation of Allah, so when we bow to our Imam, there is nobody in the front so that means we bow directly to Allah. We can only reach God through an Imam of the Time otherwise there is no other way. As the Prophet (ASA) said “Whoever looks at the face of Mowla Ali(sa), it is itself a form of worship”..... SHEZA our sister you really misunderstood our doctrine on understanding of Allah and I would suggest you to please go read the works of Pir Nasir khusraw(r.a) you will find all your question answered. In Ismailsm Islam in order to understand Allah our Beloved Creator we say that our God is the Lord of all creatures. He was not born, and He doesn’t bear Children. Our lives and deaths are at his will. He is the most generous, the most merciful and the most patient. Gives life and takes life. He is the creator of all things and His understanding is above understanding, we can only know God through an Imam of the time an authoritative teacher in spiritual knowledge.

goldfaizi · Post by **goldfaizi** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:36 am

Ya ali madad,

Dear sheza, I think that you just believe in this material world. The reason of not believing in GOD is not fair, There are thousands of people around the world who are confused whether GOD is there or not. People are so much attracted to this material world that they even not believe in GOD/Allah. I want to tell you that read our historical books, our Ginans, you will find this universe is created by ALLAH.

You said that you are an ismaili Alhamdulillah but you don't believe in ALLAH, Let me ask you something. Do you obey farman's of our present imam? do you believe him as Imam of the time? Do you believe that He is Hazrat ALI?

I think that you just need to concentrate in your faith and remember if you don't want to understand it , no one can help you to understand it. Allah is the noor of earth and heaven's. If Allah can create this world then he can also take form of human, animal or anything. You have lost your faith. You said that you are not at stage of Tauheed then how you could be an Ismaili? Tauheed which means oneness of GOD. Miss Sheza just think that how you took birth? In our history there were many people who said that there is no GOD. In the end they accept the truth. Allah is everywhere, in your heart, in your thoughts. You need to feel it.

In this modern age science has made differences between Oneness of GOD. Due to science people believe that whatever happened in our history was not done by ALLAH. It was done by some reason compare to science. Prophet Mohammad PBUH said that educate yourself as much as you can and if you need to go china to educate yourself you have too. Education helps a man to live peacefully in this world. It doesn't mean that we don't believe in GOD. I am sure that when you will see miracle in your life and you will believe that there is GOD who is watching you, who knows everything, Who is rehman and rahim and who is the king of the judgment day.

Our Imam Sultan Mohammad Shah (Salwatullahalyehi) said that if you are alone just think that who are you? how do you born? why did you born in this world? what is your destination?

Just try to see you soul in yourself and i am 100% sure you will get answer of each question which is rising in your mind.

Thanks,
Goldfaizi.

mAli1 · Post by **mAli1** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:10 am

dear sheza, i would say that i know you are in a difficult situation. but you said you are an ismaili and thats wonderful. i know you dont believe in Allah but still try to keep gaining knowlege adn ilm. Only with knowlege you can find allah. Please just remember that you are born ismaili that means that mowla has given you sanpanth dharam and that means that you have the true guide who can give salvation to your soul. so please dont give that up. and i pray that you find your answers. but please try to read farmans and ginans. they have so much knowledge that there is no limit and all your questions will be answered. but please in any case dont give up your religion.

agakhani · Post by **agakhani** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:36 am

sheza wrote:[quote="agakhani But I would like to know why are you not beliving in Allah/God? even though this is your personal matter and nobody has any right to ask you for the reason but I insist you please give me reason, may be I can e-mail you something which might change your belives and you may start to belive in god again, If you no mind to tell me please e-mail me your reason at [email protected] ( please do not forget to put _ between agakhani and 786 which is not shown here due to underline.

I have a few reasons, but I could ask you if you have any reason to beleive? or is it just faith. I ask this because alot of people dont think its possible to have a "logical" reason to beleive in God's existence.[/quote]

Sister Sheza;
There are two many reasons why I believe in Almighty Allah and Mazhar of Allah's noor (Ismaili Imam) AND WHY I AM AN ISAMAILI?, sister I can not write all these reasons here due to time and space, but I will definately write one very important and true reason here which I found after years and years studies of different religions, (Please note that neither I consider my self as a missinory nor I consider myself as a scholar or big researcher of Ismailisam and I do not say that I know everything in Ismailisam but..
I studied Hinduisam, Budhist, Jainisam,christianity. Sunny and shia religions (Ismaili, Bohra, Istnastarti) and many other religions but after deep study and spending hours and hours behind the reading and searching the fact about which one is right religion according to my self at current time I find out that Ismailisam is the RIGHT PATH AND IT IS"SHIRATAL MUSTAKIM", I as an Ismaili consider my self very lucky to have birth in this great SATPANTH religion and many many sukaran to Allah for give me birth in this religion.
the above finding is my personal finding and I do not force anybody to believe what I write here if they do not agree with my research every one has different belives and thoght therefore my thinking does not abide anybody.

goldfaizi · Post by **goldfaizi** » Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:00 pm

Dear Sheza,

If you are facing some difficult plague, i would say that don't lose your hopes, don't lose your faith. I would say that we are the most luckiest people in this whole world that we are ismaili. We should thanks to GOD.

Maulana Hazar Imam said in one of his speeches to his murids about worldly life problems :

"It would be foolish to believe that there are no problems. Life is made of problems, they occur everyday just about to everyone around the world and i think it is important that we should simply accept that is life and we must live it fully and courageously."

Shazia80 · Post by **Shazia80** » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:18 pm

Dear sheza, I would like to furhter ask few questions .... these are just randon questions that may help us move in some direction in this discussion 1. Do you think that this world working is an orderly fashion is a spontaneous arrival or is a process like evolution? 2. Do you believe in life after death 3. Just assume that if there is really no concept of GOD, will there be increase in evil in the world? [/img][/code][/b][img][/img]

arshad1988 · Post by **arshad1988** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:00 am

Quran
52:35. Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators?

Suratur-Rahman (55)
1. ((Allah)) Most Gracious!

2. It is He Who has taught the Qur'an.

3. He has created man:

4. He has taught him speech (and intelligence).

5. The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed;

6. And the herbs and the trees - both (alike) bow in adoration.

7. And the Firmament has He raised high, and He has set up the Balance (of Justice),

8. In order that ye may not transgress (due) balance.

9. So establish weight with justice and fall not short in the balance.i

10. It is He Who has spread out the earth for (His) creatures:

11. Therein is fruit and date-palms, producing spathes (enclosing dates);

12. Also corn, with (its) leaves and stalk for fodder, and sweet-smelling plants.

13. Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:48 pm

"And I (Allah SWT) created not the jinn and mankind except they should worship Me (alone). I seek not any provision from them nor do I ask that they should feed Me. Verily, Allah (SWT) is the All-Provider, Owner of Power, the Most Strong." (Surah Az-Dhaariyaat 51:56-58)

"He is Allah (SWT), the Creator, the Evolver, the Bestower of Forms (or Colors). To Him belong the Most Beautiful Names." (Al-Hashr 59:24)

"Allah (SWT) guided whom He will to a path that is straight." (Surah al-Baqarah 2:213)

No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. (6:103)

When Moses came to the place appointed by Us and his Lord addressed him, he said: Lord give me the ability to observe that I may look upon thee. The Lord said: By no means can you see Me. But look upon the mount. If it abides in its place, you shall be able to see Me. When His Lord manifested His glory on the mount it was crushed to pieces and Moses became unconscious. When he recovered his senses he said: Glory be to you! To you I turn in repentance and I am the first to believe. (7:143)

aknak · Post by **aknak** » Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:36 pm

Hi......! all, The fact that the thought crossed your mind,is the first step towards salvation.Your return journey has started and u are looking for the right course or route back,it needn;t be the shortest buy uniqlly you ! and ofcource the best u can do is talk about it .....its not god u are looking for but its you, you are looking for because God is use....the fish inside the sea is looking for the sea..............the sea is god and we are encompassed so y are we looking for god .! NO we are looking to get to know ourselves......! but just knowledge don;t jive ....u have to walk the talk........!

shiraz.virani · Post by **shiraz.virani** » Wed Jul 15, 2009 12:18 pm

Oh, ye who believe! Obey God and obey His Apostle and those vested with authority from among you……..”
(4:59)

Here, Allah demands obedience to Himself, His Prophet, and the Ulil Amr, or those vested with the Authority.

The Ulil Amr are the Ones we must follow by Allah’s Command. This Ayat was forgotten by the people after the death of Our Prophet (PBUH) The wrong choices were made, and the Islamic world was divided. People followed the powerful, thinking that they were the Ulil Amr. This was due to the misinterpretation of the term Ulil Amr, This Ayat is extremely educative and explains what a true Momin’s responsibility is.

Allah does not permit us to obey a tyrant. Anyone can’t be the Ulil Amr just because they are in power. On this earth they may be ruling but that does not make them the Ulil Amr.

Yazeed who was a tyrant, was also a Caliph. That did not make him the Ulil Amr. Saddam's ruling over Iraq. He was powerful. Can we call him the Ulil Amr?? Allah does not want his momineen to obey a tyrant.

It is up to us to think carefully before we decide who the Ulil Amr are.

The Ulil Amr have to possess all the qualities possessed by Our Prophet. They have to be Honest, Just, Kind, Pious, Trustworthy and true followers and representatives of Allah and the Prophet.

and today there is only one islamic sect who has a living imam who traces his ancestry from H.IBRAHIM [AS] and that is noor mawlana shah karim al-hussaini [49th living imam of islam]

Imam ‘Ali (as) , Imam Hasan (as) and Imam Hussain (as) did not recognize anyone as ulil amr other than themselves. Even though they may not have had political rule at any or every time, they believed that they had religious authority over mankind as per Qur’an 4:59, according to the pronouncement of the Prophet (saw) by the command of Allah [swt]. So they continued to guide people as the religious leaders of the Ummah.

Yazid son of Muawiyah was well-known as a tyrant, and a corrupt ruler. He demanded bayat (oath of allegiance) from Imam Husain (as). He wanted Imam Husain (as) to swear fealty to him as ulil amr. Imam Husain (as) was obliged to refuse because it would be a lie against the appointment and commandment of God to do so, because Yazid was a tyrant, and because if he did so, then the people forever after would be permanently confused as to the real Islam by this recognizing and giving Islamic authority to one furthest from Islam.

It is very clear that an oath of allegiance (bayat) is a serious matter because it indicates support of someone’s agendas and practices. Particularly in the case of Imam Husain (as), to whom believers looked for guidance, giving an oath of allegiance would signal to the common people a direction to go. If Imam (as) is designated by Allah swt as ulil amr, then it is not something Imam (as) or anyone else can give away. None of the Imams (sa) did so, at the cost of their lives for the generations following Husain (as), and not only Husain (as) was faced with this conflict, but it was a source of conflict for the Imams (as) who succeeded him as well.

Imam hassan (a.s.) says: I wonder those who think about their body's food, but do not think about their soul's food. they keep away disturbing food from their belly, but fill up their heart with destructive subjects.

sheza · Post by **sheza** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 4:13 am

After many discussions and some reading, I come across a common theme.

We as humans feel so important that we need to have a reason for our existence, we can not accept that it could be accidental.

We look at nature in amazement and say its proof of a creator.

We look at the complexity of the human body and say its proof.

We are afraid to accept that after we die there is nothing, so we say whats the use of doing good if we don't get a reward.

and we use these fears to make up stories, stories of God and Religion and over time we start to add complexities to the story so that it "fits" with our view and our brand of religion.

Its nothing more than our insecurities.

Its not our fault, we are born and raised with these prejudices. And I've found it impossible to argue with people who are so strongly prejudiced, while I am open to arguments in favor of existence of God, "Believers" are not, they have too much to lose.

I have to say that I am disappointed, i would've expected this from maulvis, but here i thought i was discussing with people who use their brains as well as their hearts, i guess the heart wins every time.

znanwalla · Post by **znanwalla** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 2:03 pm

"...We as humans feel so important that we need to have a reason for our existence, we can not accept that it could be accidental...."

Allah is the best of creators and the quran says HE - the Exalted knows everything that He has created....read the quran ! so the issue of an "accident" is a moot point as far as I believe....Allah says "BE" and it becomes ! There are no accidents as Allah is all Knowing and all Powerful !

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