I've heard from my elders that he said that the in the future there will be war which will divide this world and it will kill so many people only few places will be left.
Also on Kashmir he said that one night you'll sleep...in the morning Kashmir would be a part of Pakistan.
And about Pakistan that one day it will become Paris.
And on Dasond too...that one day you would wake up and hear that I've stopped Dasond then those who have paid it sincerely will be in peace and those who have not will be in discomfort.
Does anyone else has read it also from somewhere else? cos I am unsure about these things that whether Sultan Mohammad Shah said it or people making stories.
Predictions of Sultan Mohammad Shah about future?
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star_munir
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Kashmir would be part of Pakistan ! No dasond ! thats Rumour. Most of the Farmans of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah are there in two volumes of KIM. I have never came across such a Farman or there is not any thing like that in Memoirs of Aga Khan. If any one is saying such things, then you may ask the proper reference because some times people just make such stories and call it Farman for the sake of fun.
With regards to war, there are predictions in Ginans that there will be a war. There had been lot of discussion about it in topics related to daet kalingo and Dajjal.
With regards to war, there are predictions in Ginans that there will be a war. There had been lot of discussion about it in topics related to daet kalingo and Dajjal.
Yeah but those wars arent symbolic? that souls will come and fight etc.
Sultan Mohammad Shah predicted that the world will fight, different countries will have war. Many people will die. World will be divided.
Umm..and what about Pakistan becoming Paris one day?
And yeah anything about India? some people say that SMS said once that one day India will become just a plain land. Such a quake will come that India will finish.
But one thing I would always agree that there has been his rehmat on Pakistan since it has been created. Sometimes we hear in news that big floods, hurricanes etc were coming towards Pakistan and they shifted to some Indian states.
And I read somewhere that there was some researcher or scientist dont know he came to Pakistan and he saw all the situation of Pakistan...he said I didnt believe in GOD before but now I do because there is someone upwards who is running this country because without his mercy this country cannot survive. Now if we say on one side then the whole world cannot survive without his mercy.
But the country in the way it works, its surely a Rehmat of Mowla. MHI repeatedly say in his Interviews that I strongly belief that Pakistan's economy will rise in the future and will continue to grow.
Sultan Mohammad Shah predicted that the world will fight, different countries will have war. Many people will die. World will be divided.
Umm..and what about Pakistan becoming Paris one day?
And yeah anything about India? some people say that SMS said once that one day India will become just a plain land. Such a quake will come that India will finish.
But one thing I would always agree that there has been his rehmat on Pakistan since it has been created. Sometimes we hear in news that big floods, hurricanes etc were coming towards Pakistan and they shifted to some Indian states.
And I read somewhere that there was some researcher or scientist dont know he came to Pakistan and he saw all the situation of Pakistan...he said I didnt believe in GOD before but now I do because there is someone upwards who is running this country because without his mercy this country cannot survive. Now if we say on one side then the whole world cannot survive without his mercy.
But the country in the way it works, its surely a Rehmat of Mowla. MHI repeatedly say in his Interviews that I strongly belief that Pakistan's economy will rise in the future and will continue to grow.
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star_munir
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The story that India will become plain is again purely a story made by some Pakistani Ismaili. As we all know the relation between India and Pak so people make such stuff without even thinking that how bad it is to make some thing by their own and attribute it to Imam's Farman. This is not some thing that is new. If we look in history many people of Arabia attributed thier false view points as hadiths.
Now If it was really the case, that India will get downfall and if incase there was such warning, then there would be no more Ismailis living in India by now or there would not be any new Jamat Khanas and such thing. Infact, if that was the case then why the Imam made that educational Institute in Hyderabad and So on. Even if you will read the Holy Farmans of Hazir Imam made in Hyderabad last year, it will be quite obvious that the prediction you had mentioned is false.
We shall not believe such rumours and discourage such kind of false things being attributed to Imam. As for Pakistan surviving because of mercy of Imam, I will say its not just the Pakistan but the entire world is surviving with mercy of Imam.
Now If it was really the case, that India will get downfall and if incase there was such warning, then there would be no more Ismailis living in India by now or there would not be any new Jamat Khanas and such thing. Infact, if that was the case then why the Imam made that educational Institute in Hyderabad and So on. Even if you will read the Holy Farmans of Hazir Imam made in Hyderabad last year, it will be quite obvious that the prediction you had mentioned is false.
We shall not believe such rumours and discourage such kind of false things being attributed to Imam. As for Pakistan surviving because of mercy of Imam, I will say its not just the Pakistan but the entire world is surviving with mercy of Imam.
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star_munir
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As for what I can see, I feel India is much more advanced then Pakistan whether it is Economy or Science or Computer and technology or media or democracy. Again I dont want to go much in Debate that which country is the best but I dont believe as you said "Sometimes we hear in news that big floods, hurricanes etc were coming towards Pakistan and they shifted to some Indian states."
Are there no Ismailis or muslims in India? Are there no good human beings in India?
Were there never any floods, disasters and earthquakes in Pakistan? Just few years back there was big earth quake in northern part of Pakistan.
I am not denying that there is mercy of Imam on Pak. Imam has made so many institutions including AKU in Pakistan. But it is not at all appropriate to assume the there is blessings on Pak and Curse on India. India is developing and progressing and hopefully it will continue to do so and there is not any prediction that it will destroy one day.
As for Pak becoming Paris one day, I remember once I heard in Abu Ali's waez that Imam had said that one day Pak will progress very well (but before progress and prosperity there will be some periods of downfalls as well) I dont have any reference for this.
And about War. How can there be wars between souls and spirits? There will be a war and as you will read the different topics about Dajjal and Daet Kalingo, you will get to know different view points of different members. As it is in Ginan that Daet will come from China and he will be very powerful in Science. Now we can See the way China is getting advanced in all the fields. Who knew this before? China got independence in 1950. How poor it was at that time and how fastly it has advanced recently. That was some thing predicted in Ginans long ago.
Are there no Ismailis or muslims in India? Are there no good human beings in India?
Were there never any floods, disasters and earthquakes in Pakistan? Just few years back there was big earth quake in northern part of Pakistan.
I am not denying that there is mercy of Imam on Pak. Imam has made so many institutions including AKU in Pakistan. But it is not at all appropriate to assume the there is blessings on Pak and Curse on India. India is developing and progressing and hopefully it will continue to do so and there is not any prediction that it will destroy one day.
As for Pak becoming Paris one day, I remember once I heard in Abu Ali's waez that Imam had said that one day Pak will progress very well (but before progress and prosperity there will be some periods of downfalls as well) I dont have any reference for this.
And about War. How can there be wars between souls and spirits? There will be a war and as you will read the different topics about Dajjal and Daet Kalingo, you will get to know different view points of different members. As it is in Ginan that Daet will come from China and he will be very powerful in Science. Now we can See the way China is getting advanced in all the fields. Who knew this before? China got independence in 1950. How poor it was at that time and how fastly it has advanced recently. That was some thing predicted in Ginans long ago.
Ahh thanks 
It's just my feeling because Pakistan is of personal attachment to Hazar Imam because Sultan Mohammad Shah was also born here and he had done so much work for the independence of this state too.
Yeah this state was born to become a great nation
surely will take some time but this progress will last very long Inshallah.
hmm...I read in some granth on this site where it was about Daet Kalingo and Hazrat Ali coming in Dul Dul cutting the head of Daet Kalingo. But at the end it was written that we should take a symbolic meaning and kill our own Evil Spirit.
It's just my feeling because Pakistan is of personal attachment to Hazar Imam because Sultan Mohammad Shah was also born here and he had done so much work for the independence of this state too.
Yeah this state was born to become a great nation
surely will take some time but this progress will last very long Inshallah.hmm...I read in some granth on this site where it was about Daet Kalingo and Hazrat Ali coming in Dul Dul cutting the head of Daet Kalingo. But at the end it was written that we should take a symbolic meaning and kill our own Evil Spirit.
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star_munir
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I respect your patriotic feelings and surely Imam likes Pakistan. Following was the message sent by Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah to the people of Pakistan on eve of creation of Pakistan.st0necol wrote:Ahh thanks
It's just my feeling because Pakistan is of personal attachment to Hazar Imam because Sultan Mohammad Shah was also born here and he had done so much work for the independence of this state too.
Yeah this state was born to become a great nation
hmm...I read in some granth on this site where it was about Daet Kalingo and Hazrat Ali coming in Dul Dul cutting the head of Daet Kalingo. But at the end it was written that we should take a symbolic meaning and kill our own Evil Spirit.
"Thanks to the immense and almost miraculous efforts of Governor-General Jinnah, who alone brought about the greatest Muslim State in the world, Pakistan is now an accomplished fact but our work now begins. If the Muslims were depressed by the misfortunes of the last 200 years throughout the world, now, at last, the wheel of fortune has turned and we are no longer justified in being either half-hearted or pessimistic.
We must, with an our energy, heart and soul with faith in Islam and trust in God, work for the present and future glory of Pakistan and give help to the unfortunate Muslims who still suffer under foreign dominion. We must work for a better world, and be no more hypnotized by the dead glories of the distant past, or by the misfortunes of the near past."
(Switzerland, August 17, 1947)
Also Imam said, "...I am proud and happy that I was born in Karachi the city which had the honor of being the birth place of the Father of the Nation, the late Quaid-e-Azam, whose untimely and early death we all so deplore and whose loss I particularly feel with personal grief, for shortly before his death, he had asked me to take up the general direction and supervision of Pakistan representation in Europe and America..."
(Message to the world of Islam)
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star_munir
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That is true that Imam helped muslims of India and worked very hard for Aligarh University. But it is not that Imam worked only for Muslims of India only. He helped Benaras Hindu University too. He helped parsee community in Iran too.
Again if we see present state of Pakistan and all the muslim world, we can see terrorist activities. There was not much loss of life before independence, it happened after independence. Many innocent muslims,hindus, Christians, parsis, sikhs were killed in Pak/India after creation of Pak. And for a moment, if we just see the muslim countries, we can find Muslims killing other muslim brothers and sisters. Ramazan is considered holy month in Islam yet we can see so much killing in Ramzan too. This attitude of muslim was predicted by Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H). Here are few hadiths:
"Prejudice and killing will increase in my Umah, after Me." (Mishkat No 5128, Bukhari and Muslim)
"Your leaders will lead you astray, and the sword will be drawn and the bloodshed will not stop in my Umah, till the last day." (Mishkat No 5133,Daood and Tirmadhi)
"A time will come when a person who is momin in the morning will turn a kafir in the evening and a kafir in the evening will turn a momin, the next morning. People will trade their imaan for a trifling thing." (Al-Belaghul Mobin, Pg 43)
"In the near future you will see that ignorance will spread, spiritual knowledge will dissapear and haraj will prevail. (When asked what was haraj. He said killing)." (Al-Belagul Mobin, Pg 43)
Now you can just read and see how the words and Predictions of Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) are comming true.
There is one more hadith, I want to share:
"There will be a jamat in my Ummah who will always remain on the right path. Many will try to destory this jamat in vain. Atlast Islam will spread all over the world." (Mishkat No 5145,also Abu Daood)
As for the great war and daet Kalingo. Its upto us how we think it. For verses of Ginans, Quran etc there is esoteric as well as exoteric meanings. There are some symbolic meanings too but it is not appropriate to think every thing having symbolic meaning too.
In olden times many Scholars used to thought that the story of Noah's ark was just a fiction story mentioned in Bible with symbolic meaning only. As they thought it impossible that a small boat survive in such big storm whereas every thing else was vanished. However, according to recent research and development of science and technology, many evidences of Noah's ark were found and now most of the people believe it to be a historical event rather then a symbolic story. (Yet there can be symbolic meaning too of this story, but that doesn't mean that it has nothing to do with reality. Same is with the story of dajjal or daet Kalingo)
Again some people (muslims,christians etc) in Past used to thought Ramayan and Mahabharat as myth or stories written by Valmiki and Vyaas but now many evidences are found about Ramayan and Mahabharat.
Again if we see present state of Pakistan and all the muslim world, we can see terrorist activities. There was not much loss of life before independence, it happened after independence. Many innocent muslims,hindus, Christians, parsis, sikhs were killed in Pak/India after creation of Pak. And for a moment, if we just see the muslim countries, we can find Muslims killing other muslim brothers and sisters. Ramazan is considered holy month in Islam yet we can see so much killing in Ramzan too. This attitude of muslim was predicted by Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H). Here are few hadiths:
"Prejudice and killing will increase in my Umah, after Me." (Mishkat No 5128, Bukhari and Muslim)
"Your leaders will lead you astray, and the sword will be drawn and the bloodshed will not stop in my Umah, till the last day." (Mishkat No 5133,Daood and Tirmadhi)
"A time will come when a person who is momin in the morning will turn a kafir in the evening and a kafir in the evening will turn a momin, the next morning. People will trade their imaan for a trifling thing." (Al-Belaghul Mobin, Pg 43)
"In the near future you will see that ignorance will spread, spiritual knowledge will dissapear and haraj will prevail. (When asked what was haraj. He said killing)." (Al-Belagul Mobin, Pg 43)
Now you can just read and see how the words and Predictions of Prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) are comming true.
There is one more hadith, I want to share:
"There will be a jamat in my Ummah who will always remain on the right path. Many will try to destory this jamat in vain. Atlast Islam will spread all over the world." (Mishkat No 5145,also Abu Daood)
As for the great war and daet Kalingo. Its upto us how we think it. For verses of Ginans, Quran etc there is esoteric as well as exoteric meanings. There are some symbolic meanings too but it is not appropriate to think every thing having symbolic meaning too.
In olden times many Scholars used to thought that the story of Noah's ark was just a fiction story mentioned in Bible with symbolic meaning only. As they thought it impossible that a small boat survive in such big storm whereas every thing else was vanished. However, according to recent research and development of science and technology, many evidences of Noah's ark were found and now most of the people believe it to be a historical event rather then a symbolic story. (Yet there can be symbolic meaning too of this story, but that doesn't mean that it has nothing to do with reality. Same is with the story of dajjal or daet Kalingo)
Again some people (muslims,christians etc) in Past used to thought Ramayan and Mahabharat as myth or stories written by Valmiki and Vyaas but now many evidences are found about Ramayan and Mahabharat.
Umm...yeah correct
And I heard in Abu Aly'z Waiz which he made in 1979 i guess and he said that after maybe 50 yrs later...there will be a time where all the Muslims of other communities will come to Hazar Imam to guide them and Hazar Imam will have to accept them.
We now see that many non-ismailies believe in Hazar Imam perhaps more than us. I was told by my aunty when she was in Northern Areas for deedar...there was a pandol and it was so hot very hot...mothers were bringing water from their houses and pouring on their children....and there was few non-ismailies on the trees...sitting and waiting for Hazar Imam.....our volunteers told them to leave and go because Imam was coming but they said No we will not move even if you kill us, we will only go after his Deedar. And she told when Hazar Imam was about to come so 5-10 minutes before all the clouds started to cover...then when Hazar Imam went...heavy rains started....all the Pakistan Army soldiers who were giving their duty on the high side of mountain were shocked on this miracle.
Islam is Ismailism in it's correct way. So Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) Hadith that atlast Islam will spread all over the world seems to be really near now. Maybe more 10-20 yrs.
And I heard in Abu Aly'z Waiz which he made in 1979 i guess and he said that after maybe 50 yrs later...there will be a time where all the Muslims of other communities will come to Hazar Imam to guide them and Hazar Imam will have to accept them.
We now see that many non-ismailies believe in Hazar Imam perhaps more than us. I was told by my aunty when she was in Northern Areas for deedar...there was a pandol and it was so hot very hot...mothers were bringing water from their houses and pouring on their children....and there was few non-ismailies on the trees...sitting and waiting for Hazar Imam.....our volunteers told them to leave and go because Imam was coming but they said No we will not move even if you kill us, we will only go after his Deedar. And she told when Hazar Imam was about to come so 5-10 minutes before all the clouds started to cover...then when Hazar Imam went...heavy rains started....all the Pakistan Army soldiers who were giving their duty on the high side of mountain were shocked on this miracle.
Islam is Ismailism in it's correct way. So Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) Hadith that atlast Islam will spread all over the world seems to be really near now. Maybe more 10-20 yrs.
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star_munir
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Thanks for sharing this incident. I think 10-20 years will be too early but a time will surely come when other muslims will realize the importance of Imamat and will accept Hazir Imam as thier leader.st0necol wrote:Umm...yeah correct
And I heard in Abu Aly'z Waiz which he made in 1979 i guess and he said that after maybe 50 yrs later...there will be a time where all the Muslims of other communities will come to Hazar Imam to guide them and Hazar Imam will have to accept them.
We now see that many non-ismailies believe in Hazar Imam perhaps more than us. I was told by my aunty when she was in Northern Areas for deedar...there was a pandol and it was so hot very hot...mothers were bringing water from their houses and pouring on their children....and there was few non-ismailies on the trees...sitting and waiting for Hazar Imam.....our volunteers told them to leave and go because Imam was coming but they said No we will not move even if you kill us, we will only go after his Deedar. And she told when Hazar Imam was about to come so 5-10 minutes before all the clouds started to cover...then when Hazar Imam went...heavy rains started....all the Pakistan Army soldiers who were giving their duty on the high side of mountain were shocked on this miracle.
Islam is Ismailism in it's correct way. So Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) Hadith that atlast Islam will spread all over the world seems to be really near now. Maybe more 10-20 yrs.
As you said, today even we can find non ismailis respecting Imam. I had heard about one or two Non Ismaili Muslims in Pakistan who had recited Holy Ginans.I think You may know about them.
Its not just muslims but there are non muslims also who believes alot in Hazir Imam. In Mumbai, if you visit Hasanabad and see the tomb of Imam Hassan Ali Shah. Inside, there is large sized photo of Karim Hazir Imam. Many Marathi Hindus who live nearby, comes there, offer coconut there and pray there. This reminds me the quote of Khwaja Hassan Nizami from Noorum Mubin in which He said about Sultan Mohamed Shah that for His hindu ummat, He is Krishna avtaar. (Note : hindu ummat, here means hindus that believe Imam, and not Ismailis)
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star_munir
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Reasons for Rumours against India:
I was thinking from where these rumours against India may be originated. It definately shows superiority of Pak over India as Pak will get progress and India will get downfall.
The curriculum of Pakistani Schools promotes hatred towards India and Indians. This may be the cause of such rumours. The cruel kings like Mehmood Ghaznavi, Shahbuddin Ghauri, Qutubudin Aibak are highly praised whereas there is stereotyping in negative sense towards hindus and british. Hence minds of young children are brainwashed. These Young children may be Non Ismaili as well as Ismaili Students.
It is said that philosophy of Pakistan is two nation theory. In reality there is not any thing like two nation theory. According to two nation theory hindus and muslims are two different nations and can never live together.
In Ginan Pir Hassan Kabirdin says us hindu muslmaan sarve aikhatta (In Anant Akhado). Even Hazir Imam talks about pluralism and tolerance.
If you dont mind, will you comment on this. (I hope you have not mind this.)
I was thinking from where these rumours against India may be originated. It definately shows superiority of Pak over India as Pak will get progress and India will get downfall.
The curriculum of Pakistani Schools promotes hatred towards India and Indians. This may be the cause of such rumours. The cruel kings like Mehmood Ghaznavi, Shahbuddin Ghauri, Qutubudin Aibak are highly praised whereas there is stereotyping in negative sense towards hindus and british. Hence minds of young children are brainwashed. These Young children may be Non Ismaili as well as Ismaili Students.
It is said that philosophy of Pakistan is two nation theory. In reality there is not any thing like two nation theory. According to two nation theory hindus and muslims are two different nations and can never live together.
In Ginan Pir Hassan Kabirdin says us hindu muslmaan sarve aikhatta (In Anant Akhado). Even Hazir Imam talks about pluralism and tolerance.
If you dont mind, will you comment on this. (I hope you have not mind this.)
Nope I haven't and it's good really because I find so many similarities b/w Indians and Pakistanis people. And I've indian friends through Orkut and today Youngsters are more accepting than our elders. Basically I've come across a couple of young people whose family members were afraid of Pakistani people because they thought them as Terrorist but they were really enthusiastic to talk and know more.
It's not my hatred towards India. I would love to go to India once. It was just those predictions told by my elders so I thought it could be a possibility. But ofcourse where there are many people who like indians or pakistani people...there are also few who hate them too. I love Indian people because our culture and family values are almost same. There's no difference b/w them except just the Border line.
And ofcourse Religion is a personal matter of every Individual and it all makes a group but afterall Muslims can live with anyone. But we also cannot deny that there were at that time too much hatred going around for the Muslims and they were deprived of their rights. But now this generation likes peace and wants love b/w two countries rather than fight and hatred towards each other.
I also hear that MHI has done many miracles in the Northern Areas. It's one that there was some function and he was to attend that...what Shias did, they placed Holy Quran under the red carpet upon whom MHI was about to walk. He kept walking walking and suddenly where there was a Quran, he stopped and told the organizers that this Holy Book should not be treated like this. It's Quran and it's a sin to keep it on the floor. All the shias were shocked.
One more incident, that there was some two wild animals who were totally uncontrollable and hungry...shias brought them..and they were kept undercontrol with the help of chains etc...as soon as Hazar Imam arrived they opened the chains and set them free...they ran towards Hazar Imam and just before him they sat down and I guess Hazar Imam kept his hands on their head and said they were my murids.
At the time of Sultan Mohammad Shah, here in Karachi Rahimabad Jamatkhana he came so there was a Naag (Snake) who was very very old...murids asked Sultan Mohammad Shah that this Snake is very very old and is here since long time...so Imam replied that he has to go far many years to complete his punishment because he stole the money of my Dasond or Jamatkhana.
And No I don't know about those non-ismailies.
Abida Parveen has recited Holy Ginans in the functions where Hazar Imam was Chief Guest when he visited Pakistan. In 2000, he didn't attend and the way the Jamat was attending that Ginan in Pearl Continental Hotel. I've seen this in a video and found it in-appropriate. People were sitting with Big rounded pillows and doing Wah Wah. Is it right?
And Abida Parveen is a twelver.
It's not my hatred towards India. I would love to go to India once. It was just those predictions told by my elders so I thought it could be a possibility. But ofcourse where there are many people who like indians or pakistani people...there are also few who hate them too. I love Indian people because our culture and family values are almost same. There's no difference b/w them except just the Border line.
And ofcourse Religion is a personal matter of every Individual and it all makes a group but afterall Muslims can live with anyone. But we also cannot deny that there were at that time too much hatred going around for the Muslims and they were deprived of their rights. But now this generation likes peace and wants love b/w two countries rather than fight and hatred towards each other.
I also hear that MHI has done many miracles in the Northern Areas. It's one that there was some function and he was to attend that...what Shias did, they placed Holy Quran under the red carpet upon whom MHI was about to walk. He kept walking walking and suddenly where there was a Quran, he stopped and told the organizers that this Holy Book should not be treated like this. It's Quran and it's a sin to keep it on the floor. All the shias were shocked.
One more incident, that there was some two wild animals who were totally uncontrollable and hungry...shias brought them..and they were kept undercontrol with the help of chains etc...as soon as Hazar Imam arrived they opened the chains and set them free...they ran towards Hazar Imam and just before him they sat down and I guess Hazar Imam kept his hands on their head and said they were my murids.
At the time of Sultan Mohammad Shah, here in Karachi Rahimabad Jamatkhana he came so there was a Naag (Snake) who was very very old...murids asked Sultan Mohammad Shah that this Snake is very very old and is here since long time...so Imam replied that he has to go far many years to complete his punishment because he stole the money of my Dasond or Jamatkhana.
And No I don't know about those non-ismailies.
Abida Parveen has recited Holy Ginans in the functions where Hazar Imam was Chief Guest when he visited Pakistan. In 2000, he didn't attend and the way the Jamat was attending that Ginan in Pearl Continental Hotel. I've seen this in a video and found it in-appropriate. People were sitting with Big rounded pillows and doing Wah Wah. Is it right?
And Abida Parveen is a twelver.
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star_munir
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Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts, knowledge and experiences.st0necol wrote:Nope I haven't and it's good really because I find so many similarities b/w Indians and Pakistanis people. And I've indian friends through Orkut and today Youngsters are more accepting than our elders. Basically I've come across a couple of young people whose family members were afraid of Pakistani people because they thought them as Terrorist but they were really enthusiastic to talk and know more.
It's not my hatred towards India. I would love to go to India once. It was just those predictions told by my elders so I thought it could be a possibility. But ofcourse where there are many people who like indians or pakistani people...there are also few who hate them too. I love Indian people because our culture and family values are almost same. There's no difference b/w them except just the Border line.
And ofcourse Religion is a personal matter of every Individual and it all makes a group but afterall Muslims can live with anyone. But we also cannot deny that there were at that time too much hatred going around for the Muslims and they were deprived of their rights. But now this generation likes peace and wants love b/w two countries rather than fight and hatred towards each other.
I also hear that MHI has done many miracles in the Northern Areas. It's one that there was some function and he was to attend that...what Shias did, they placed Holy Quran under the red carpet upon whom MHI was about to walk. He kept walking walking and suddenly where there was a Quran, he stopped and told the organizers that this Holy Book should not be treated like this. It's Quran and it's a sin to keep it on the floor. All the shias were shocked.
One more incident, that there was some two wild animals who were totally uncontrollable and hungry...shias brought them..and they were kept undercontrol with the help of chains etc...as soon as Hazar Imam arrived they opened the chains and set them free...they ran towards Hazar Imam and just before him they sat down and I guess Hazar Imam kept his hands on their head and said they were my murids.
At the time of Sultan Mohammad Shah, here in Karachi Rahimabad Jamatkhana he came so there was a Naag (Snake) who was very very old...murids asked Sultan Mohammad Shah that this Snake is very very old and is here since long time...so Imam replied that he has to go far many years to complete his punishment because he stole the money of my Dasond or Jamatkhana.
And No I don't know about those non-ismailies.
Abida Parveen has recited Holy Ginans in the functions where Hazar Imam was Chief Guest when he visited Pakistan. In 2000, he didn't attend and the way the Jamat was attending that Ginan in Pearl Continental Hotel. I've seen this in a video and found it in-appropriate. People were sitting with Big rounded pillows and doing Wah Wah. Is it right?
And Abida Parveen is a twelver.
As per Sir Naoraji Dumasia, "No Indian Nationalist, not even Mr.Gandhi argued India's case for justice and liberty with such cogency and independence as the Aga Khan."
Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah said,"India is like the Maharashtra Divinity, which has one big body but many hands of varying lengths and proportions. Her varying cultures and civilisations have a rich unity. This variety does not mean disunison but a great splendour in things of the spirit and toleration."
These quotes further shows that Imam do not hate India as the rumours suggested.
In Memoirs of Aga Khan, Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah had written about G.K Gokhale, "Gokhale and I struck up a friendship which only ended with his death. He was a caste hindu and I was a muslim, but our friendship crossed the barriers of creed and race. He was a man of vision, courageous and generous. His influence on my thought and outlook was probably considerable. In Gokhale I encountered powerful as well as lovable personality. I realized how deep and strong were the forces in India of which he was the spokesman."
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star_munir
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Similarly, Imam had written about Sarojini Naidu in Memoirs of Aga Khan : "Mrs. Naidu, Gandhi's companion in his midnight conference with Me at the Ritz that autumn night in 1931, was in her way hardly less fascinating personality. She was one of the most remarkable women I have ever met, in some ways as remarkable as Miss Nightangle herself. Her home after her marriage was in Hyderabad. Although her original inclinations and her upbringing were exteremely democratic, she was a poet.....She herself was a real poet, who wrote strongly and tenderly of love and of life, of the world of the spirit and the passions. In that linking of tenderness and strength which was in her nature there was no room for malice, hatred or ill will. She was a vigorous nationalist, determined that the British must leave India and her destiny in the hand of India's children, yet her admiration for western civilization and western science-above all for English literature was deep and measureless."
InshaAllah tommorow or day after tommorow I will share my views about British rule and muslims, hindus and muslims before partition of India.
InshaAllah tommorow or day after tommorow I will share my views about British rule and muslims, hindus and muslims before partition of India.
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star_munir
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British Raj in South Asia
Although many books shows that British treated Indians badly but that is not truth. Farmans of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah from KIM shows that there was religious freedom during British Raj. I remember in one Farman Imam had said that Under British rule, you have freedom to conduct religious ceremonies, but there are also places where Ismailis do not have right to practice thier faith freely...
In countries like Arabia we can see that Ismailis and some other muslims and non muslims do not have right to practice thier religious ceremonies.
Following are from Memoirs of Aga Khan. If you want to read more, you can read from Memoirs of Aga Khan.
(About Queen Victoria)
"...She was keenly alert and sensitive to the views and the needs of her Indian Subjects, and her liking and sympathy for them were warm and genuine. I particularly remember that she said to Me, at dinner with great earnestness that she hoped that when British people in India visited mosques and temples they conducted themselves with respect and reverence as they would in cathedrals in thier own land."
(About King Edward VII)
"For the last decade of his life, I was honoured with the warm, personal friendship of King Edward VII. My association with him was far from formal. He was elderly and I was young, and at the outset, a stranger, but he treated me always with the greatest kindness and benevolence. Indeed, if I search for a word in which to sumup king Edward's character, the answer is to be found in "benevolent". He wished everybody well."
(About King George V)
"I have always been proud that I won King George V's friendship and maintained it to the end of his life..........He had a very kind heart which was easily stirred to sympathy by suffering of others."
Now the question arises :
Why muslims were suffering at that time? Was it because of British or hindus or what? Why there was partition of United India in India and Pakistan.
If you or any one else want me, then I will share my views and understanding on this.
It will be nice to hear your opinions as well.
Although many books shows that British treated Indians badly but that is not truth. Farmans of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah from KIM shows that there was religious freedom during British Raj. I remember in one Farman Imam had said that Under British rule, you have freedom to conduct religious ceremonies, but there are also places where Ismailis do not have right to practice thier faith freely...
In countries like Arabia we can see that Ismailis and some other muslims and non muslims do not have right to practice thier religious ceremonies.
Following are from Memoirs of Aga Khan. If you want to read more, you can read from Memoirs of Aga Khan.
(About Queen Victoria)
"...She was keenly alert and sensitive to the views and the needs of her Indian Subjects, and her liking and sympathy for them were warm and genuine. I particularly remember that she said to Me, at dinner with great earnestness that she hoped that when British people in India visited mosques and temples they conducted themselves with respect and reverence as they would in cathedrals in thier own land."
(About King Edward VII)
"For the last decade of his life, I was honoured with the warm, personal friendship of King Edward VII. My association with him was far from formal. He was elderly and I was young, and at the outset, a stranger, but he treated me always with the greatest kindness and benevolence. Indeed, if I search for a word in which to sumup king Edward's character, the answer is to be found in "benevolent". He wished everybody well."
(About King George V)
"I have always been proud that I won King George V's friendship and maintained it to the end of his life..........He had a very kind heart which was easily stirred to sympathy by suffering of others."
Now the question arises :
Why muslims were suffering at that time? Was it because of British or hindus or what? Why there was partition of United India in India and Pakistan.
If you or any one else want me, then I will share my views and understanding on this.
It will be nice to hear your opinions as well.
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star_munir
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Muslims were is miserable condition but why?
To answer this, I will first like to mention about some intolerent Muslim rulers of India.
Conquest of Sindh by Mohammad bin Qasim (712 A.D):
Raja Dahir was the ruler of Sindh. It is said that he was a very secular king.He had also given shelter to a well-known follower of Imam Hussian, Muhammad Bin Allafi, who was given shelter in Sindh from the Ommayya enemies of Ahl-e-Bait.
Hajaj Bin Yousuf made attack to sindh for getting wealth.When Dahir's severed head was presented to Hajjaj, a courtier sang: "we have conquered Sindh after enormous trouble.... Betrayed is Dahir by Mohammed Bin Qasim's masterly strategy. Rejoice, the evil doers are disgraced. Their wealth has been brought away . . . They are now solitary and brittle as eggs and their women, fair and fragrant as musk-deer, are now asleep in our harems.'' The loot of Sindh enriched the Arab lands. Twenty thousand Sindhis were sold in slavery, mostly as cooks and cashiers. As per Chahchnama ".."Mohammed Qasem arose and with his counsellors, guards and attendants, went to the temple. He saw there an idol made of gold. and its two eye were bright red rubies. "..Muhammed Qasem ordered the idol to be taken up. Two hundred and thirty "mans" of gold were brought to the treasury together with the gems and pearls and treasures which were obtained from the plunder of Multan. "
Mehmood Ghaznavi:
He was very cruel ruler of his time. He attacked India seventeen times and took wealth and treasures to Afghanistan. He destroyed many temples including the most famous "Somnath temple" He was also enemy of Ismailis. Ismailis were ruling in Multan at that time. He attacked Multan for two times. In second time he won the battle and killed many ismaili muslims.
Mohammad Ghauri:
Also famous as "Shahbuddin Ghauri" had attacked Ajmer. He lost battle with Prithviraj, one of the famous Rajput King of India. But he won one of the battles and imprisoned Prithvi.
He cruelly killed small child of Prithvi and raped his beautiful wife Sanyogita. According to some sources Sanyogita did Jauhar (Practice in Rajput princess to kill themselves in order to protect themselves from ill-treatment by muslim invaders) As Prithvi was expert in shooting arrows, Ghauri made him blind.
He is the same Ghauri, from whose name there is misile of Pakistan i.e, "Ghauri Misile". There is tomb of Prithviraj in Afghansitan. Its very sad that extremist muslims living in Afghanistan throw stones on his grave and insult it because Prithvi was "hindu".
Mohammad Ghauri and after him Qutubuddin Aibak also did battle with Ismailis of that time. Qutubuddin Aibak killed large number of people specially Buddhist. As Buddhist dont believe in wars, they were easily defeated. In the name of Islam, thousands of temples were destroyed and mosques were constructed in their place.
Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb Alamgir:
His father Shah Jahan built the famous "Taj Mahal". He kept his father in prison and became Emperor. Sikh specially hate him because he killed Guru Tegh Bahadur, as he not accepted Islam. He had given two options to Guru, either to show a miracle or otherwise accept Islam. When he refused to do any of them, he was killed. Aurangzeb also destroyed temples. Many muslims respect him because he was "namazi" and "religious".
Now I do not mean to say that, there were not any good and tolerant muslim rulers. But I mentioned some points just to say that, muslims were sufferering after the end of muslim rule, also because of those acts of intolerant and cruel muslim rulers.
To answer this, I will first like to mention about some intolerent Muslim rulers of India.
Conquest of Sindh by Mohammad bin Qasim (712 A.D):
Raja Dahir was the ruler of Sindh. It is said that he was a very secular king.He had also given shelter to a well-known follower of Imam Hussian, Muhammad Bin Allafi, who was given shelter in Sindh from the Ommayya enemies of Ahl-e-Bait.
Hajaj Bin Yousuf made attack to sindh for getting wealth.When Dahir's severed head was presented to Hajjaj, a courtier sang: "we have conquered Sindh after enormous trouble.... Betrayed is Dahir by Mohammed Bin Qasim's masterly strategy. Rejoice, the evil doers are disgraced. Their wealth has been brought away . . . They are now solitary and brittle as eggs and their women, fair and fragrant as musk-deer, are now asleep in our harems.'' The loot of Sindh enriched the Arab lands. Twenty thousand Sindhis were sold in slavery, mostly as cooks and cashiers. As per Chahchnama ".."Mohammed Qasem arose and with his counsellors, guards and attendants, went to the temple. He saw there an idol made of gold. and its two eye were bright red rubies. "..Muhammed Qasem ordered the idol to be taken up. Two hundred and thirty "mans" of gold were brought to the treasury together with the gems and pearls and treasures which were obtained from the plunder of Multan. "
Mehmood Ghaznavi:
He was very cruel ruler of his time. He attacked India seventeen times and took wealth and treasures to Afghanistan. He destroyed many temples including the most famous "Somnath temple" He was also enemy of Ismailis. Ismailis were ruling in Multan at that time. He attacked Multan for two times. In second time he won the battle and killed many ismaili muslims.
Mohammad Ghauri:
Also famous as "Shahbuddin Ghauri" had attacked Ajmer. He lost battle with Prithviraj, one of the famous Rajput King of India. But he won one of the battles and imprisoned Prithvi.
He cruelly killed small child of Prithvi and raped his beautiful wife Sanyogita. According to some sources Sanyogita did Jauhar (Practice in Rajput princess to kill themselves in order to protect themselves from ill-treatment by muslim invaders) As Prithvi was expert in shooting arrows, Ghauri made him blind.
He is the same Ghauri, from whose name there is misile of Pakistan i.e, "Ghauri Misile". There is tomb of Prithviraj in Afghansitan. Its very sad that extremist muslims living in Afghanistan throw stones on his grave and insult it because Prithvi was "hindu".
Mohammad Ghauri and after him Qutubuddin Aibak also did battle with Ismailis of that time. Qutubuddin Aibak killed large number of people specially Buddhist. As Buddhist dont believe in wars, they were easily defeated. In the name of Islam, thousands of temples were destroyed and mosques were constructed in their place.
Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb Alamgir:
His father Shah Jahan built the famous "Taj Mahal". He kept his father in prison and became Emperor. Sikh specially hate him because he killed Guru Tegh Bahadur, as he not accepted Islam. He had given two options to Guru, either to show a miracle or otherwise accept Islam. When he refused to do any of them, he was killed. Aurangzeb also destroyed temples. Many muslims respect him because he was "namazi" and "religious".
Now I do not mean to say that, there were not any good and tolerant muslim rulers. But I mentioned some points just to say that, muslims were sufferering after the end of muslim rule, also because of those acts of intolerant and cruel muslim rulers.
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star_munir
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I have got to know although Pakistani textbooks for Social Studies label Raja Dahir as cruel ruler, yet the people living in interior Sindhi believes Raja Dahir as their hero (Do correct me here, if I am wrong). Although according to Some people Mohammad bin Qasim and Hajaj bin Yousuf were kind and tolerant but even the books by muslim historians do not support that. The book of Al-beruni about Indian history reveals their intolerant attitude. An incident is mentioned which shows the way Mohammad bin Qaim insulted the idol of hindu god by putting beef meat on it.
I have also got to know that many Sindhi muslims respect Jhule lal. Sindhi hindus consider Jhule lal as thier god. Jhule lal had killed the cruel muslim ruler, who was intolerant towards hindus and he had spread the message of peace and love for all.
The day of partition was also the day of deaths for many people. Following is from the article by Araone, which shows how much destruction was there in Karachi alone.
Again I want to say, it was not only Karachi, but bloodshed was there in almost all the places of India and Pakistan of hindus, muslims, sikhs, christians etc.
____________________________________________________________
"On August 13 1947 thousands of Bahais, Parsis and Buddhists who had
lived in Karachi for 4 to 6 generations went to sleep full citizens
of the land of their birth.
When they awakened in the morning of August 14 1947 they had been
stripped of this birthright and made to be unacceptable as citizens
because they were not Ahale Kitab. They inherited a doubtful status
which prevails maybe to this day.
Over a period of several decades their properties became encroached
upon, they lost voice in the governance because there was none, Ayub
Khan came in with his generals and vote went away for good.
The land opposite Empress market was simply swallowed up and given
over to a bus terminus. Quiet neighborhoods became a bedlam of shor
and gul and to this day people are harassed by the countless millions
who walk the ways into and out of the city every day.
In early 50 s a steady persecution of an ancient community of Jews
began, who had settled here since 1800 s. By end of 1955 they simply
migrated away, and every last one of them regretted leaving their own
beautiful city.
To this day the old Karachiites who are in touch pine for the old
city with love.
Buddhists followed suit as did Christians and many Parsis, because
they were never included in the nation building and running. Fire
Temples became encroached upon, and holy places stood barren.
In Sukker alone the ancient graveyard of Parsis has been almost
obliterated and graves of 1700 s and 1800 s desecrated, headstones
stolen, walls denuded of stone.
A disastrous family planning policy fell into the hands of mullahs
and birth control suddenly became a bad name, and hoards of births
overstripped and a rampant population growth ensued.
Karachi, poor lawaris Karachi, bore the brunt of the Northerners who
streamed into the city in an increasing tide till all semblance of
order gave way.
Pristine places where never a sound came other than birds and waves
became busrtees because Bhutto and his henchmen thought to build and
allot and squander away Karachi's inborn wealth, and rampant
urbanization ensued.Some time ago I began to write of Karachi as I remembered it and people became annoyed with me because they thought this caused negative sentiments.Denial of whatever is true simply brings more complications, and today Karachi stands at a cross road which threatened it like never before.Today we who were born there and drank of it's waters feel homesick and want to walk the old streets again, but..........."
_____________________________________________________________
Hmm I think I have written enough negative points...the purpose was not to write against muslims but to share history without being biased. I will continue more, by sharing next time some positive points about Muslims and partition of United India, incase if you have not got bored so far.
I have also got to know that many Sindhi muslims respect Jhule lal. Sindhi hindus consider Jhule lal as thier god. Jhule lal had killed the cruel muslim ruler, who was intolerant towards hindus and he had spread the message of peace and love for all.
The day of partition was also the day of deaths for many people. Following is from the article by Araone, which shows how much destruction was there in Karachi alone.
Again I want to say, it was not only Karachi, but bloodshed was there in almost all the places of India and Pakistan of hindus, muslims, sikhs, christians etc.
____________________________________________________________
"On August 13 1947 thousands of Bahais, Parsis and Buddhists who had
lived in Karachi for 4 to 6 generations went to sleep full citizens
of the land of their birth.
When they awakened in the morning of August 14 1947 they had been
stripped of this birthright and made to be unacceptable as citizens
because they were not Ahale Kitab. They inherited a doubtful status
which prevails maybe to this day.
Over a period of several decades their properties became encroached
upon, they lost voice in the governance because there was none, Ayub
Khan came in with his generals and vote went away for good.
The land opposite Empress market was simply swallowed up and given
over to a bus terminus. Quiet neighborhoods became a bedlam of shor
and gul and to this day people are harassed by the countless millions
who walk the ways into and out of the city every day.
In early 50 s a steady persecution of an ancient community of Jews
began, who had settled here since 1800 s. By end of 1955 they simply
migrated away, and every last one of them regretted leaving their own
beautiful city.
To this day the old Karachiites who are in touch pine for the old
city with love.
Buddhists followed suit as did Christians and many Parsis, because
they were never included in the nation building and running. Fire
Temples became encroached upon, and holy places stood barren.
In Sukker alone the ancient graveyard of Parsis has been almost
obliterated and graves of 1700 s and 1800 s desecrated, headstones
stolen, walls denuded of stone.
A disastrous family planning policy fell into the hands of mullahs
and birth control suddenly became a bad name, and hoards of births
overstripped and a rampant population growth ensued.
Karachi, poor lawaris Karachi, bore the brunt of the Northerners who
streamed into the city in an increasing tide till all semblance of
order gave way.
Pristine places where never a sound came other than birds and waves
became busrtees because Bhutto and his henchmen thought to build and
allot and squander away Karachi's inborn wealth, and rampant
urbanization ensued.Some time ago I began to write of Karachi as I remembered it and people became annoyed with me because they thought this caused negative sentiments.Denial of whatever is true simply brings more complications, and today Karachi stands at a cross road which threatened it like never before.Today we who were born there and drank of it's waters feel homesick and want to walk the old streets again, but..........."
_____________________________________________________________
Hmm I think I have written enough negative points...the purpose was not to write against muslims but to share history without being biased. I will continue more, by sharing next time some positive points about Muslims and partition of United India, incase if you have not got bored so far.
-
star_munir
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All the muslim rulers were not intolerent. In ancient times, there was strick caste system in India, the people in lower castes used to suffer a lot But with the arrival of Buddhism and Jainism, caste system was weakened and with the arrival of muslims and muslim rulers it was much more weakened. Nowadays caste system in not a big problem or issue in Modern India as it was once in the past. People live happily together although belonging from different castes and religions.
There are some social evils in each society. Just like in some muslim countires, women are forced to wear hijab. That is a social evil which has nothing to do with religions. In ancient times, in some tribes there were social evils of practice of Satee and child marriages. Mughal Emperor Akbar, banned the practice of satee and child marriages. Some other rulers had also did the same.
Hindus had rich cultural heritage and so did the muslims (Who came to India different countries) had. When both were together in same land, they learned from each other and were influenced with each other.
There are some social evils in each society. Just like in some muslim countires, women are forced to wear hijab. That is a social evil which has nothing to do with religions. In ancient times, in some tribes there were social evils of practice of Satee and child marriages. Mughal Emperor Akbar, banned the practice of satee and child marriages. Some other rulers had also did the same.
Hindus had rich cultural heritage and so did the muslims (Who came to India different countries) had. When both were together in same land, they learned from each other and were influenced with each other.
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star_munir
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After the war of Independence in 1857, there was British Raj in India. British thought muslims to be responsible for this war.
Muslims were dissapointed. They remained backward and behind because they refused to learn English langauge and subjects of science. They thought by learning English, they will become "Kafir" or will get away from thier religion. They were happy living in past, in Golden era of Islam, where muslim scientists had made significant progress in field of Science. At that time, Some broad minded muslim leaders like Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, tried to convince muslims to stop living in past and start working for the future. He established scientific society to translate books of Science in Urdu langauge so muslims may easily understand it and tried convincing muslims to learn English. Many orthodox muslims labeled him as Kafir for doing such acts.
Muslims are Ummat of Grandfather (Hazrat Ali,Prophet Muhammad) of our Imam. How can Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah left muslims in Suffering? He helped the muslims to get progress in educational, social and political fields.
I am writting here only few examples to answer the question.
The details and more information is there in many books and this website too. The information below, is taken from timeline section of this website.
Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah presided over the Muslim Educational Conference at Delhi. In his Presidential speech, He called for the establishment of Aligarh University and he himself donated Rs. 35,000.00. In 1911, He organised the collection of Rs. 3,000,000 for Aligarh University
He gave gave a Presidential Address to the All India Mohammadan Educational Conference in Delhi. He spoke about the advantages which the Muslims of India possess, and the necessity of schools to teach both male and female the Faith and modern secular science.
Sultan Mohamed Shah was also elected as the first permanent President of the Muslim League. He resigned after 7 years in 1914.Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah gave an interview which was published in "The Times"(London) on February 15 and in "The Civil and Military Gazette", Lahore (March 14).
During this interview, Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah talked about the problem of the minorities in India, how the differences between Muslims and Hindus must be recognized, how the two communities must be equally represented politically and socially, and how Hindus cannot speak for the whole of India.
Muslims were dissapointed. They remained backward and behind because they refused to learn English langauge and subjects of science. They thought by learning English, they will become "Kafir" or will get away from thier religion. They were happy living in past, in Golden era of Islam, where muslim scientists had made significant progress in field of Science. At that time, Some broad minded muslim leaders like Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, tried to convince muslims to stop living in past and start working for the future. He established scientific society to translate books of Science in Urdu langauge so muslims may easily understand it and tried convincing muslims to learn English. Many orthodox muslims labeled him as Kafir for doing such acts.
Muslims are Ummat of Grandfather (Hazrat Ali,Prophet Muhammad) of our Imam. How can Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah left muslims in Suffering? He helped the muslims to get progress in educational, social and political fields.
I am writting here only few examples to answer the question.
The details and more information is there in many books and this website too. The information below, is taken from timeline section of this website.
Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah presided over the Muslim Educational Conference at Delhi. In his Presidential speech, He called for the establishment of Aligarh University and he himself donated Rs. 35,000.00. In 1911, He organised the collection of Rs. 3,000,000 for Aligarh University
He gave gave a Presidential Address to the All India Mohammadan Educational Conference in Delhi. He spoke about the advantages which the Muslims of India possess, and the necessity of schools to teach both male and female the Faith and modern secular science.
Sultan Mohamed Shah was also elected as the first permanent President of the Muslim League. He resigned after 7 years in 1914.Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah gave an interview which was published in "The Times"(London) on February 15 and in "The Civil and Military Gazette", Lahore (March 14).
During this interview, Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah talked about the problem of the minorities in India, how the differences between Muslims and Hindus must be recognized, how the two communities must be equally represented politically and socially, and how Hindus cannot speak for the whole of India.
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star_munir
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Unity between hindus and muslims
I will share here some examples of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah's efforts for unity btw hindus and muslims and His love for India.
In 1893, Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah was called upon to settle major riots btw hindus and muslims. Because of this, Ismailis not only refrained from participating in riots byr also helped in restoring peace and order. they gave shelter to a number of hindus.
Imam said about importance of education in making different nations and community united in following words : "..... The last and most important benefit would be that as education became general, caste and religious prejudices would gradually die out. The greatest misfortune of India is that its peoples are divided into compartments and live in compartments. Mohamedans and Hindus, owing to religioius and social prejudices due to ignorance, are like two nations apart. The Hindus of the upper and lower castes are equally separated. This division is not only ruinous to the people but in the long run will make peaceful administration impossible. This gulf cannot be bridged by force. No, the work must be done through education, general, elementary and scientific. Religious difficulties and caste disabilities will only become the minor things they are in Europe and America when education teaches the public that such differences are not to be allowed to interfere in their daily lives."
On 29 January, 1910 Imam gave the inaugural Address to the All India Muslim League Third Annual Session in Delhi, in which He said :
"I have no hesitation in asserting that unless Hindus and Mohammedans co-operate with each other in the general development of the country as a whole and in all matters affecting their mutual interest, neither will develop to the full its legitimate aspirations or give full scope to its possibilities." (Mohammadens means muslims)
Imam also suggested to read sanskrit literature as well...
"That one object is the improvement of education. The Muslims should enlarge the sphere of education where it exists already and must create it where it is absent. Scientific and technical education in all its various branches such as commercial, industrial and agricultural instruction must be the main practical objects of our energy and ambitions. At the same time the literary side so beautifully known as the Humanities should not be neglected and our interest as well as sentiments make it necessary that a knowledge, not only of English, Arabic and Persian but also of Sanskrit literature, should exist amongst us so that we may come in contact with the sources of Hindu civilisation and the roots of Hindu society..."
(this quote or a quote similar to this, you can also find in Noorum Mubin)
On December 23, 1910 in an Interview with "The Times of India" Imam with regards to unity between hindus and muslims said, "They were all partners in the mightiest and most glorious empire the world had ever seen, they were component parts of a body politic, and creatures of one God. Hindus and Mahomedans were like two arms of a nation - they could not sacrifice nor injure one without weakening the other."
In 1912, Sultan Mohamed Shah also called a Hindu-Muslim Unity Conference at Allahabad.
December 9, 1927 - Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah gave a statement to the Press in Bombay which was printed in "The Times", London, December 10, 1927. statement was issued as Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah arrived in Bombay from Europe. Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah said, "...I am moved only by love for India. The whole country is divided, and while these divisions last, progress is impossible."
Eid is coming and as we know that non ismaili muslims sacrifice animals on occassion of Eid. During those days there were also problems because of sacrificing cow on occassion of Eid because hindus consider Cow as sacred animal.
Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah on Dec 31, 1928 at All India All Parties Muslim Conference in Delhi said, "Cow-killing has unfortunately been a perpetual source of bitter feeling between Muslims and Hindus. It is incumbent on us all to find a remedy. It may help us to do this, if we trace the origin of sacrificial rites. We are all agreed that we celebrate the historical sacrifice by Ibrahim. But it must be remembered that Ibrahim, one of our great Prophets, did not sacrifice a cow, nor is the sacrifice of a bovine especially enjoined anywhere. On the contrary, the camel or the sheep is more frequently mentioned in connection with sacrificial rites. How many of our Hajis have sacrificed cows in Arabia, the home of Islam?"
Two Nation theory in current times:
No doubt Islam and Hinduism are two different religions and have different religious history but yet hindus and muslims can live happily and united if there is tolerance. Otherwise even in muslim state, there can be divisions and problems btw Shia, Sunnis and all and I often get to hear problems and fights btw Sunni and Shia muslims in Ramzan and Moharam.
When Muslims of South Asia, got the separate country of Pakistan. It was again divided. If muslims of India are one nation then why two countries are there? One Pak and other Bangladesh. The reason is simply the difference in culture. Nations are formed on basis of culture. The way of living and culture of Bengali muslims is very different from those living in Sindh, Punjab etc. Bengali muslims did not accept Urdu as thier national langauge because the way of speaking as well as writing Bangla is very different from Urdu and because Urdu was made national langauge of Pakistan, in riots many Bengalis were killed. Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah had suggested Arabic to be National langauge of Pakistan but the suggestion of Imam was not accepted. If it would be the case, then may be Bangladesh would be the Part of Pakistan today, as Arabic would bring unity among all, as majority in Pak are muslims and Arabic is langauge of Quran and hadiths. So it was most likey that people would not had any objection about the Arabic whether they are sindhi, punjabi or Bengali.
I will share here some examples of Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah's efforts for unity btw hindus and muslims and His love for India.
In 1893, Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah was called upon to settle major riots btw hindus and muslims. Because of this, Ismailis not only refrained from participating in riots byr also helped in restoring peace and order. they gave shelter to a number of hindus.
Imam said about importance of education in making different nations and community united in following words : "..... The last and most important benefit would be that as education became general, caste and religious prejudices would gradually die out. The greatest misfortune of India is that its peoples are divided into compartments and live in compartments. Mohamedans and Hindus, owing to religioius and social prejudices due to ignorance, are like two nations apart. The Hindus of the upper and lower castes are equally separated. This division is not only ruinous to the people but in the long run will make peaceful administration impossible. This gulf cannot be bridged by force. No, the work must be done through education, general, elementary and scientific. Religious difficulties and caste disabilities will only become the minor things they are in Europe and America when education teaches the public that such differences are not to be allowed to interfere in their daily lives."
On 29 January, 1910 Imam gave the inaugural Address to the All India Muslim League Third Annual Session in Delhi, in which He said :
"I have no hesitation in asserting that unless Hindus and Mohammedans co-operate with each other in the general development of the country as a whole and in all matters affecting their mutual interest, neither will develop to the full its legitimate aspirations or give full scope to its possibilities." (Mohammadens means muslims)
Imam also suggested to read sanskrit literature as well...
"That one object is the improvement of education. The Muslims should enlarge the sphere of education where it exists already and must create it where it is absent. Scientific and technical education in all its various branches such as commercial, industrial and agricultural instruction must be the main practical objects of our energy and ambitions. At the same time the literary side so beautifully known as the Humanities should not be neglected and our interest as well as sentiments make it necessary that a knowledge, not only of English, Arabic and Persian but also of Sanskrit literature, should exist amongst us so that we may come in contact with the sources of Hindu civilisation and the roots of Hindu society..."
(this quote or a quote similar to this, you can also find in Noorum Mubin)
On December 23, 1910 in an Interview with "The Times of India" Imam with regards to unity between hindus and muslims said, "They were all partners in the mightiest and most glorious empire the world had ever seen, they were component parts of a body politic, and creatures of one God. Hindus and Mahomedans were like two arms of a nation - they could not sacrifice nor injure one without weakening the other."
In 1912, Sultan Mohamed Shah also called a Hindu-Muslim Unity Conference at Allahabad.
December 9, 1927 - Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah gave a statement to the Press in Bombay which was printed in "The Times", London, December 10, 1927. statement was issued as Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah arrived in Bombay from Europe. Mowlana Sultan Mohamed Shah said, "...I am moved only by love for India. The whole country is divided, and while these divisions last, progress is impossible."
Eid is coming and as we know that non ismaili muslims sacrifice animals on occassion of Eid. During those days there were also problems because of sacrificing cow on occassion of Eid because hindus consider Cow as sacred animal.
Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah on Dec 31, 1928 at All India All Parties Muslim Conference in Delhi said, "Cow-killing has unfortunately been a perpetual source of bitter feeling between Muslims and Hindus. It is incumbent on us all to find a remedy. It may help us to do this, if we trace the origin of sacrificial rites. We are all agreed that we celebrate the historical sacrifice by Ibrahim. But it must be remembered that Ibrahim, one of our great Prophets, did not sacrifice a cow, nor is the sacrifice of a bovine especially enjoined anywhere. On the contrary, the camel or the sheep is more frequently mentioned in connection with sacrificial rites. How many of our Hajis have sacrificed cows in Arabia, the home of Islam?"
Two Nation theory in current times:
No doubt Islam and Hinduism are two different religions and have different religious history but yet hindus and muslims can live happily and united if there is tolerance. Otherwise even in muslim state, there can be divisions and problems btw Shia, Sunnis and all and I often get to hear problems and fights btw Sunni and Shia muslims in Ramzan and Moharam.
When Muslims of South Asia, got the separate country of Pakistan. It was again divided. If muslims of India are one nation then why two countries are there? One Pak and other Bangladesh. The reason is simply the difference in culture. Nations are formed on basis of culture. The way of living and culture of Bengali muslims is very different from those living in Sindh, Punjab etc. Bengali muslims did not accept Urdu as thier national langauge because the way of speaking as well as writing Bangla is very different from Urdu and because Urdu was made national langauge of Pakistan, in riots many Bengalis were killed. Imam Sultan Mohamed Shah had suggested Arabic to be National langauge of Pakistan but the suggestion of Imam was not accepted. If it would be the case, then may be Bangladesh would be the Part of Pakistan today, as Arabic would bring unity among all, as majority in Pak are muslims and Arabic is langauge of Quran and hadiths. So it was most likey that people would not had any objection about the Arabic whether they are sindhi, punjabi or Bengali.
Very true munir.
Even in Ismaili community people belong to different cultures etc.
Hazar Imam's Golden Jubilee emblem there's a Quranic Ayat which means that your Lord has created you from a single soul and then made their companion.
We all are one. Brothers so we must be united regardless of the religion we follow because all religion have different ways of worshiping the LORD.
Even in Ismaili community people belong to different cultures etc.
Hazar Imam's Golden Jubilee emblem there's a Quranic Ayat which means that your Lord has created you from a single soul and then made their companion.
We all are one. Brothers so we must be united regardless of the religion we follow because all religion have different ways of worshiping the LORD.
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star_munir
- Posts: 1670
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am
- Contact:
Yeah thats the truth and as few days back I mentioned about the ill-treatment with the minorities in Pakistan, I will like to mention that there are broadminded politicians and muslim rulers too who believed in unity.
Here is article about Musharaf visiting hindu temple.
____________________________________________________________
Musharraf visits Shiv temple in Karachi
November 23, 2006
Islamabad: President Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday visited a temple of Lord Shiva in Karachi where he said historical places of all religions, including that of Hinduism, were an integral part of Pakistan's history and it was the priority of the government to maintain them.
Musharraf, currently on a visit to the Port city, drove down to a Shiv temple in the town which was one of the oldest in the region. He was received at the temple by its caretaker Suresh Manjani, state-run PTV reported. "Historical places of all religions including that of hinduism are the integral part of Pakistan's cultural and geographical history," he was quoted as saying by PTV.
He said it was the priority of the government to keep them in shape so that they remain an asset and source of belonging for interfaith bonding and tourists around the world. Pakistan has some of the oldest Hindu temples which have remained neglected for over five decades. In 2004, the Pakistan government launched a Rs 10 crore project to renovate the Khatas Raj temple in Punjab province where the Pandavas are believed to have spent their exile. BJP leader LK Advani visited the sprawling temple when he came to Pakistan.
_____________________________________________________________
Now to finally conclude this discussion I want to say as now United India is divided in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. There was time when India was one of the richest country of the world. British came to conquer India and said India is golden sparrow. But as we now look at present condition of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, it is not as good as it was in Past. The only reason I can see is there is no unity. As there is quote united we stand and divided we fall. A large sum of money is spent for the purpose of defence only. If there is unity and friendly relations then that money can be spent on education and public welfare. The height of cruelty and hatred is so much that, when fishermen of India, in order to catch fish from Arabian Sea, by mistake comes little near Pakistan and those of Pakistan came in India are kept in prison for 13, 14 and some times for thier life time. Some of them are young children. They know that these are just illiterate poor fishermen not detectives, terrorist or army people yet heavy punishment is given to them for just a mistake. Some times I wonder those who give such punishment whether Indian or Pakistanis, do they deserve to call human beings? or do they have hearts even?
The thing is there is fire of hatred without any reason and this hatred is the sole hindrance in the way of progress and development of a nation.
I believe in years ahead, if there will be values of love, respect, kindness and tolerance among the poeple and the government of Pak/Bangla and India then it is the way to get success and glory.
Here is article about Musharaf visiting hindu temple.
____________________________________________________________
Musharraf visits Shiv temple in Karachi
November 23, 2006
Islamabad: President Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday visited a temple of Lord Shiva in Karachi where he said historical places of all religions, including that of Hinduism, were an integral part of Pakistan's history and it was the priority of the government to maintain them.
Musharraf, currently on a visit to the Port city, drove down to a Shiv temple in the town which was one of the oldest in the region. He was received at the temple by its caretaker Suresh Manjani, state-run PTV reported. "Historical places of all religions including that of hinduism are the integral part of Pakistan's cultural and geographical history," he was quoted as saying by PTV.
He said it was the priority of the government to keep them in shape so that they remain an asset and source of belonging for interfaith bonding and tourists around the world. Pakistan has some of the oldest Hindu temples which have remained neglected for over five decades. In 2004, the Pakistan government launched a Rs 10 crore project to renovate the Khatas Raj temple in Punjab province where the Pandavas are believed to have spent their exile. BJP leader LK Advani visited the sprawling temple when he came to Pakistan.
_____________________________________________________________
Now to finally conclude this discussion I want to say as now United India is divided in India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. There was time when India was one of the richest country of the world. British came to conquer India and said India is golden sparrow. But as we now look at present condition of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, it is not as good as it was in Past. The only reason I can see is there is no unity. As there is quote united we stand and divided we fall. A large sum of money is spent for the purpose of defence only. If there is unity and friendly relations then that money can be spent on education and public welfare. The height of cruelty and hatred is so much that, when fishermen of India, in order to catch fish from Arabian Sea, by mistake comes little near Pakistan and those of Pakistan came in India are kept in prison for 13, 14 and some times for thier life time. Some of them are young children. They know that these are just illiterate poor fishermen not detectives, terrorist or army people yet heavy punishment is given to them for just a mistake. Some times I wonder those who give such punishment whether Indian or Pakistanis, do they deserve to call human beings? or do they have hearts even?
The thing is there is fire of hatred without any reason and this hatred is the sole hindrance in the way of progress and development of a nation.
I believe in years ahead, if there will be values of love, respect, kindness and tolerance among the poeple and the government of Pak/Bangla and India then it is the way to get success and glory.
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hussainkhan55
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 1:35 am
Role of Sultan mohammad Shah in creation of Pakistan.
When and where was this farman read that Pakistan will one day become PAris. Pls enlighten me more about this
imam Sultan mohammad Shah was responsible for the establishment of SAARC, inoculations (vaccinations) and hockey matches In Indo-PAk
Also, being one of the first muslims to realize significance of a separate political party for Musalmaans that became forerunner for Pakistan Movement.
Besides that he was elected first ever president of League of NAtions and participated in Round TAble conferences in London which was crictical to steer case for a separate PAKISTAN.
Hence he has done everything for our country and we should be particularly careful to be grateful to him for endowing us with such a beautiful country that one can ever dream of.
Star pls elaborate and enlighten on some points regarding Pakistan as mentioned above in your next posting. THANK U
imam Sultan mohammad Shah was responsible for the establishment of SAARC, inoculations (vaccinations) and hockey matches In Indo-PAk
Also, being one of the first muslims to realize significance of a separate political party for Musalmaans that became forerunner for Pakistan Movement.
Besides that he was elected first ever president of League of NAtions and participated in Round TAble conferences in London which was crictical to steer case for a separate PAKISTAN.
Hence he has done everything for our country and we should be particularly careful to be grateful to him for endowing us with such a beautiful country that one can ever dream of.
Star pls elaborate and enlighten on some points regarding Pakistan as mentioned above in your next posting. THANK U
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hussainkhan55
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 1:35 am