This topic came up briefly in the thread about homosexuality referring specifically to the civil rights movements.
The western world tends to be further on the left than other parts of the globe, and growing up in Canada, I had the reinforced perspective that all people regardless of their differences are equal. And so, I support movements for women rights and gay rights, and it's apparent that some people don't agree with things like women rights, and I'm curious why?
Equality
Re: Equality
Here are my 2 cents for whatever they're worth - I, for one, believe that in civil society, everyone - every single being SHOULD have the same rights as everyone else but that only extends to civil rights. So as I have stated on another thread - there is a difference in Civil Unions versus having a religious ceremony and forcing the religion to change, to accept deviance as it is not our place to make changes to the practice of the Tariqah, that is the Imam's prerogative and HIS only. However, before one talks of equal rights and exert energy in achieving those, I also believe that every person should have access to education, access to food, access to a means to drag themselves out of poverty, I think those are the bigger battles we need to fight - even in our Jamats. In Social Work we often are told of Maslov's triangle, where the base of the triangle consists of 3 primary things - Food, Shelter and Security - Freedom is actually after that; before one can worry about freedom of speech or freedom of anything, one worries about how one is going to feed one's family, or how one is going to break the cycle of poverty. Those are the questions we need to address first, and after that we can talk of education, because what use are freedoms and rights if the majority of the population isn't aware of what these rights are and how they can exercise these rights. In our civic lives; most of us live in a democracy, and whilst in a democracy minority rights are protected, however it is the majority that rules. Ismailism is a dictatorship - whatever the Imam says..We do.a1337 wrote:This topic came up briefly in the thread about homosexuality referring specifically to the civil rights movements.
The western world tends to be further on the left than other parts of the globe, and growing up in Canada, I had the reinforced perspective that all people regardless of their differences are equal. And so, I support movements for women rights and gay rights, and it's apparent that some people don't agree with things like women rights, and I'm curious why?
Shams
Shams
Re: Equality
And yet the Aqa Khans have repeatedly stressed the importance, for example, of the equality of women and men; the "12bhai" who challenged the Imam's authority in the Khoja community back in the day first conflicted with him because he ordered them to uphold the right of women's inheritance in Islam and they refused, citing Khoja tradition that only men could inherit. There was a court case that decided legally the Khoja could do as they pleased, and the Imam cut the 12bhai off from the community after warning them he would do so if they did not follow the rules of equality. The famous "Agha Khan" case later involved these same individuals.ShamsB wrote: In our civic lives; most of us live in a democracy, and whilst in a democracy minority rights are protected, however it is the majority that rules. Ismailism is a dictatorship - whatever the Imam says..We do.
So too did Aqa Khan III order the cessation of purdah and stressed the importance of women's roles in the faith and in the world. The Imam of the Time has seen fit to emphasise these issues, which were very radical at the time (and remain very radical to many Muslims).
When dealing with Markov's Triangle, it is important to remember that racism, sexism, homophobia and other prejudices inhibit the basic ability of persons to get or maintain the three points. Queer folk, 'unwanted' ethnicities and anyone identified as female suffer greatly in their inability to obtain food, shelter and security... To ignore these factors is to ignore the crucial role social strictures play in keeping people from the very simple needs of daily life.
The western world tends to be further on the left than other parts of the globe, and growing up in Canada, I had the reinforced perspective that all people regardless of their differences are equal. And so, I support movements for women rights and gay rights, and it's apparent that some people don't agree with things like women rights, and I'm curious why?
i have absolutely no issues with women , i respect women ... but when it comes to gay's/lesbians what category do they belong ???
male ??
female ??
animal ??
alien ??
what category do they belong ??
Humans are not homosexuals by nature. People become homosexuals because of their environments. Particularly critical is the environment during puberty. Suggestions, ideas & strange dreams are symptoms of confused attempts to understand new and blunt sexual desires and are rashly interpreted as defining someone as being one sexuality or another. If these conclusions are accompanied by actual homosexual acts they are even more strongly reinforced.
Human instincts can be subjected to acts of will. Sexuality is a choice of identity which follows choices of action which follow from choices of what to have sexual fantasies about. Human beings are especially able to control their thoughts, entertaining some and dismissing others.
However, if this free will is not recognised it is easy to get into a cycle of thinking which starts from accepting a hypothesis about yourself as true rather than as a possible choice (even if the options are sometimes difficult).For example: "I am lazy " could be supposed true by someone. When the person who thinks this lies around in bed in the morning he observes this inaction as evidence of the statement "I am lazy." As he repeatedly chooses to do so the evidence mounts and the idea becomes fixed in his identity. It may even have physical manifestations and change his physiology and psychology. This process can easily occur for any idea good or bad about the self which is based largely on evidence resulting from ones own action. The idea may be "I am 'gay'" or "I am content" or "I love eating lots of food". The truth is - you are what you choose to be ; you do what you choose to do ; you think what you choose to think. There may be long time delays between the causing choices and the effects but anyone can change themselves. There are reformed ex-drug addicts, reformed ex-compulsive gamblers and ex-homosexuals. In all these sins prevention is 1000 times better than cure and much easier.
First, why are you so obsessed with putting everyone in a category?hungama25 wrote: ... but when it comes to gay's/lesbians what category do they belong ???
male ??
female ??
animal ??
alien ??
what category do they belong ??
Second, why are you comparing gay people with animals and aliens? Gay, straight and bisexual men are men, gay, straight and bisexual women are women. It's not rocket science.
If you think "falling in love with someone" is akin to "being lazy", you obviously have never experienced the first. In fact, I wonder if you have a sex/love drive at all, because the most basic notion of attraction to another human being is obviously not something under human control. You can't choose who you desire, who you have crushes on or who you fall in love with. I can't believe you are comparing those with "being lazy".
Also, the way you talk about "choosing which fantasies you entertain" makes me wonder - does that mean you have fantasies about the same sex but that you deny them?
if i dont place you in some category then what is your identity sister ? how can i even call you sister when i dont even know what you are ?First, why are you so obsessed with putting everyone in a category?
because in the west even animals have as many rights as humans do , plus the messiah for gays is dying to claim legal rights for homosexuals in islam which is impossible, reason ?? we cannot go against ALLAH[swt]Second, why are you comparing gay people with animals and aliens? Gay, straight and bisexual men are men, gay, straight and bisexual women are women. It's not rocket science.
If you think "falling in love with someone" is akin to "being lazy", you obviously have never experienced the first. In fact, I wonder if you have a sex/love drive at all, because the most basic notion of attraction to another human being is obviously not something under human control. You can't choose who you desire, who you have crushes on or who you fall in love with. I can't believe you are comparing those with "being lazy".
ahhhhhhhh.....now i guess ill have to learn this from my lesbian sister, well just to let you know iam hooked up with a girl from past 8 years i.e when i was 16 years old and this year insha allah we are planning to get married. As a human being yes! i do have a sex/love drive, my fiance lives in india and i reside in USA , its been almost 4 years now since i met her, people say long distance marriage is impossible, but by the grace of allah[swt] we are still happy and soon we'll be united, insha allah. Are you serious ?? can you move you hands ????? can you blink your eyes ??? can you hold your pee ??? if YES then why cant you control you desire ??
i am god fearing sister and those who are god fearing can never go against allah[saw]'s commands , in short iam not gay and iam very happy that i found my soul mate = GIRLAlso, the way you talk about "choosing which fantasies you entertain" makes me wonder - does that mean you have fantasies about the same sex but that you deny them?
He's putting you in a bucket because on the other thread you've put yourself in a bucket i.e. 'ismaili lesbian'.TheMaw wrote:First, why are you so obsessed with putting everyone in a category?hungama25 wrote: ... but when it comes to gay's/lesbians what category do they belong ???
male ??
female ??
animal ??
alien ??
what category do they belong ??
Second, why are you comparing gay people with animals and aliens? Gay, straight and bisexual men are men, gay, straight and bisexual women are women. It's not rocket science.
If you think "falling in love with someone" is akin to "being lazy", you obviously have never experienced the first. In fact, I wonder if you have a sex/love drive at all, because the most basic notion of attraction to another human being is obviously not something under human control. You can't choose who you desire, who you have crushes on or who you fall in love with. I can't believe you are comparing those with "being lazy".
Also, the way you talk about "choosing which fantasies you entertain" makes me wonder - does that mean you have fantasies about the same sex but that you deny them?
He's got a point on both buckets - we don't put ourselves in buckets in our faith based on our sexuality. I don't go around calling myself Ismaili Heterosexual. We do go by ethnicity btw - Khoja Ismaili, Shamsi Ismaili, Persian Ismaili, Tajiki Ismaili etc....that is how we identify ourselves.
Shams
And you can't just address me as another human being? You have to know all these things about me or you can't talk to me?hungama25 wrote:if i dont place you in some category then what is your identity sister ? how can i even call you sister when i dont even know what you are ?
I have no idea what that means.hungama25 wrote:because in the west even animals have as many rights as humans do , plus the messiah for gays is dying to claim legal rights for homosexuals in islam which is impossible, reason ?? we cannot go against ALLAH[swt]
I can hold my desire, yes - I don't just leap onto women that I find attractive, now do I?hungama25 wrote:Are you serious ?? can you move you hands ????? can you blink your eyes ??? can you hold your pee ??? if YES then why cant you control you desire ??
I cannot hold my love, though. I could be celibate and never so much as touch another human being, and I'd still be gay. That girl in India? You want to be with her. That's desire. Well, I feel the same desire. Doesn't mean I go out and hump everything that moves any more than you do. But the feeling of desire for women is still inside me.
Do you not understand that the desire for a thing is not the same thing as grasping after a thing?
You didn't answer my question, you just avoided it.[/i]hungama25 wrote:i am god fearing sister and those who are god fearing can never go against allah[saw]'s commands , in short iam not gay and iam very happy that i found my soul mate = GIRL
Hungama, it seems very shallow of you to try and bring me into arguments that I'm not even involved with. You for some reason, decided to describe me as the 'gay messiah' and dub me as some person who wants to go against religion because I have some hidden motive with the gay community. While the internet may be the only medium for you to display your paranoid rants and spread hate for people based on differences, be they gender, race, sexual orientation, or opinion (in your case with me), the ismaili forum isn't the place. If you want to have a calm, rational, peaceful debate/ discussion by all means.
Also, you argued that you're not sure whether gays/lesbians qualify as men, women, aliens, etc. but you're the one who argues that sexual orientation is a conscious decision. Therefore, you've already accepted that gays or men and lesbians are women. So you're clearly dehumanizing a large minority of people for no reason. That does not sound like something Allah would want us to do, so where does that put a god fearing person like you? And on that note, why are you afraid of Allah, he is merciful and has a great love for us, have you done numerous deeds to make Allah mad? Perhaps, if you could show love for your spiritual brothers and sisters, you could experience that love as well. Also, why do you have a problem with the treatment of animals in the west? Do you believe we should TORTURE Allah's creations simply because it's convenient?
Shams, I disagree with your validation to categorize other people. Only the individual can truly define themselves and if they choose to belong to a certain niche then so be it, however, to categorize another implies who they are does not matter but rather a random aspect of them (background, orientation, gender, opinion, etc.) and it is a shallow way of defining people.
Also, you argued that you're not sure whether gays/lesbians qualify as men, women, aliens, etc. but you're the one who argues that sexual orientation is a conscious decision. Therefore, you've already accepted that gays or men and lesbians are women. So you're clearly dehumanizing a large minority of people for no reason. That does not sound like something Allah would want us to do, so where does that put a god fearing person like you? And on that note, why are you afraid of Allah, he is merciful and has a great love for us, have you done numerous deeds to make Allah mad? Perhaps, if you could show love for your spiritual brothers and sisters, you could experience that love as well. Also, why do you have a problem with the treatment of animals in the west? Do you believe we should TORTURE Allah's creations simply because it's convenient?
Shams, I disagree with your validation to categorize other people. Only the individual can truly define themselves and if they choose to belong to a certain niche then so be it, however, to categorize another implies who they are does not matter but rather a random aspect of them (background, orientation, gender, opinion, etc.) and it is a shallow way of defining people.
my dear all living things on this earth have a gender = male or female, which category do you belong ??And you can't just address me as another human being? You have to know all these things about me or you can't talk to me?
are you man or are you a woman ?
have a desire for same sex itself is haram in islam !!! and this is what iam trying to provecan hold my desire, yes - I don't just leap onto women that I find attractive, now do I?
I cannot hold my love, though. I could be celibate and never so much as touch another human being, and I'd still be gay. That girl in India? You want to be with her. That's desire. Well, I feel the same desire. Doesn't mean I go out and hump everything that moves any more than you do. But the feeling of desire for women is still inside me.
sister my desire does not go against the law of nature
, what you are desiring is totally against the law of nature, plus i never said you hump every other moving object so please do not twist the subject.and do you understand that gay/lesbianism is haram in islam ??Do you not understand that the desire for a thing is not the same thing as grasping after a thing?
no, iam not gayYou didn't answer my question, you just avoided it.[/i]
Hungama, it seems very shallow of you to try and bring me into arguments that I'm not even involved with. You for some reason, decided to describe me as the 'gay messiah' and dub me as some person who wants to go against religion because I have some hidden motive with the gay community. While the internet may be the only medium for you to display your paranoid rants and spread hate for people based on differences, be they gender, race, sexual orientation, or opinion (in your case with me), the ismaili forum isn't the place. If you want to have a calm, rational, peaceful debate/ discussion by all means.
you are the one who is dying to get equal rights for gays which is impossible in islam and in short ismailism, reason ismailis believe that islam is allah's religion , prophet muhammad[saw] is his final prophet and quran his final revelation. According to quran gay sex is haram
so now you tell me what you are ?
1] ismaili or
2] messiah of gays
???????????????????
ufffffff when i call you gays you say why dont you call us a human beings and when i ask you what criteria you belong to you come up with your idiotic comments " WHY DONT YOU CALL US GAYS=MAN AND LESBIAN= WOMAN", khair keeping all this aside lemme ask youAlso, you argued that you're not sure whether gays/lesbians qualify as men, women, aliens, etc. but you're the one who argues that sexual orientation is a conscious decision. Therefore, you've already accepted that gays or men and lesbians are women.
WHAT IS YOUR GENDER ??
ARE YOU MAN OR WOMAN ???
yeah right !! allah was happy with the nation of h.lut[as] too ! what happened ?? can allah kill those whom he loves the most ????That does not sound like something Allah would want us to do, so where does that put a god fearing person like you? And on that note, why are you afraid of Allah, he is merciful and has a great love for us, have you done numerous deeds to make Allah mad?
answer is " when you go against allah's commands and try to reform his religion then you gonna face the tune ! "
just like you are the king/messiah of faggots there were people in those times too who forced h.lut[as] and his followers out of town saying "hez not among us" , and then day came when allah[swt] said
"YOU ARE NOT AMONG US "
canada is the country which organises gay parades and a lot of stuff happens over there so i can totally understand your way of thinking
Perhaps, if you could show love for your spiritual brothers and sisters, you could experience that love as well. Also, why do you have a problem with the treatment of animals in the west? Do you believe we should TORTURE Allah's creations simply because it's convenient?
yes brother = man and sister = woman , i show equal love to man and woman but not gays and lesbian who themselves are confused as to which category they belong !!
and when did i said you torture animals in the west ??? all i said is if you are talking about rights my friend then even animals have more rights than gays and lesbians
You haven't argued that gays shouldn't have rights. And I hardly consider myself a messiah. You're the one spreading hate implying homosexuals have no right to exist. Perhaps I'll address you as 'The Terrorist.' You haven't proved that the affection for the same sex is a sin but the act of sodomy. Even then, what you have IS NOT concrete enough for you to ostracize a group of people. Leave the judging up to Allah. I don't get your unwillingness to accept that gay man is a man and a lesbian is a woman. Considering the basis of being gay involves HAVING the same gender, if you can't accept that a gay man is a man and a lesbian a woman, you should have to issue with gays and lesbians existing in society and within the islamic community, unless you're trying to attempt to make yourself seem better than other people by spreading ignorant hate 'Terrorist.' You seem to have an inconsistent notion of what Allah is about, one minute he's all merciful next he's out to get people, make up your mind. And once again you try to attack me, calling me the 'king/messiah of faggots.' You're just being rude, spreading neo-nazi reform in a drape of serving Islam. It's people like you that caused the most tragic moments in history and granted you may be afraid of things beyond your norm coming from a country where everyone was basically the same but that does not excuse anything. I don't know whether you're afraid of gay people, afraid of being gay, etc. but assuming they're confused is quite ignorant considering they're more certain about their sexuality than you are.
You haven't argued that gays shouldn't have rights. And I hardly consider myself a messiah. You're the one spreading hate implying homosexuals have no right to exist.
excuse me ! when did i said that ?? all i said is you can do whatever you want but.... do not call yourselves ismaili gay or ismaili lesbian because its not the religion which forced you to be gay/lesbian.
Perhaps I'll address you as 'The Terrorist.' You haven't proved that the affection for the same sex is a sin but the act of sodomy.
sodomy is in context with the same sex in quran !!! if you simply wanna turn blind on certain aayats which talks about lust for men and gay sex then i cannot help you....infact nobody can
you can call me whatever you , happy ?dont forget, people like you are already judged in quranEven then, what you have IS NOT concrete enough for you to ostracize a group of people. Leave the judging up to Allah.
I don't get your unwillingness to accept that gay man is a man and a lesbian is a woman. Considering the basis of being gay involves HAVING the same gender, if you can't accept that a gay man is a man and a lesbian a woman, you should have to issue with gays and lesbians existing in society and within the islamic community, unless you're trying to attempt to make yourself seem better than other people by spreading ignorant hate 'Terrorist.'
iam not trying to spread any hatred, control you frustration !! if gays = man then why dont we simply call them man ??? they gotta be a reason right ??? think over it and u'll get the answer, and yes iam a terrorist for faggots
this is what happens when you dont read holy quran and pass judgements, iam not the one whoz against fags, its holy allah[swt] who has already warned us about what he did to his servants in the past, the story of h.lut[as] is not a mere story, its a warning for those who fear allah[swt], he punishes only those who even after getting warnings and signs from allah tend to be jaahilYou seem to have an inconsistent notion of what Allah is about, one minute he's all merciful next he's out to get people, make up your mind.
And once again you try to attack me, calling me the 'king/messiah of faggots.' You're just being rude, spreading neo-nazi reform in a drape of serving Islam.
oh i have already seen you showing this crap to all those who give proofs regarding homosex @ quran , so keep going i ain't worried about what you say , iam focused on what you write regarding homosex in context with quran
I don't know whether you're afraid of gay people, afraid of being gay, etc. but assuming they're confused is quite ignorant considering they're more certain about their sexuality than you are
finally !!!!
now you tell me what their sexuality ??:lol:You're arguing it right now, we're on the equality thread, not homosexuality. I suggest you learn how to read. I've always phrased things as being ismaili and gay, and secondly, someone can classify themselves however they want.
You're quite a hypocrite when it comes to turning a blind eye to the Quran, you pay no attention to the context of time in which the Quran was revealed, that's why we have a living Quran, you want to find any excuse to not allow homosexuals to exist in society, and you've refused to say that homosexuals have the right to exist in society without facing discrimination.
You once again try to presume I'm sinning because of my views by implying that I've been judged, I pray you can learn how to use whatever intellect you may have.
Homosexuality is independent of sex, a man can be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual etc. and the same goes with a female.
You can't drape your views and say it's in the name of the Quran, it is exactly what terrorist groups do and history shows the many times people have killed in the name of God. So you have no right to be that arrogant on your ability to interpret the Quran. Being merciful and out to get people are conflicts, I believe Allah is all merciful and punishment comes down to the people who know they're doing something wrong and continue to do it.
I have argued that islam teaches pluralism and that we should accept our brothers and sisters regardless of gender, race, orientation, opinion, etc. And because you don't understand what it's like to be homosexual, doesn't mean you should condemn it, especially after I have pointed reasons from all the quotes you posted that it fails to argue homosexuality is wrong.
You're quite a hypocrite when it comes to turning a blind eye to the Quran, you pay no attention to the context of time in which the Quran was revealed, that's why we have a living Quran, you want to find any excuse to not allow homosexuals to exist in society, and you've refused to say that homosexuals have the right to exist in society without facing discrimination.
You once again try to presume I'm sinning because of my views by implying that I've been judged, I pray you can learn how to use whatever intellect you may have.
Homosexuality is independent of sex, a man can be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual etc. and the same goes with a female.
You can't drape your views and say it's in the name of the Quran, it is exactly what terrorist groups do and history shows the many times people have killed in the name of God. So you have no right to be that arrogant on your ability to interpret the Quran. Being merciful and out to get people are conflicts, I believe Allah is all merciful and punishment comes down to the people who know they're doing something wrong and continue to do it.
I have argued that islam teaches pluralism and that we should accept our brothers and sisters regardless of gender, race, orientation, opinion, etc. And because you don't understand what it's like to be homosexual, doesn't mean you should condemn it, especially after I have pointed reasons from all the quotes you posted that it fails to argue homosexuality is wrong.
1+1 = 2 , this is what i was taught when i was in pre school , did the math changed ???? or 1+1 = 2 was for a fixed time ??You're quite a hypocrite when it comes to turning a blind eye to the Quran, you pay no attention to the context of time in which the Quran was revealed, that's why we have a living Quran, you want to find any excuse to not allow homosexuals to exist in society, and you've refused to say that homosexuals have the right to exist in society without facing discrimination.
i guess you were taught 1+1 = 11
and thats the reason why you are soo dumbquran is the book for humankind, it was not made for certain period OR after the message of islam was proclaimed allah[swt] said "throw this book, its useless now"
allah[swt] said there is guidance for those who use intellect, but you are an exception my friend
do you think homosexual marriage should be allowed in jamatkhana ? i need the answer pleaseYou once again try to presume I'm sinning because of my views by implying that I've been judged, I pray you can learn how to use whatever intellect you may have.
and thats the reason why they are dependant on civil lawsHomosexuality is independent of sex, a man can be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual etc. and the same goes with a female.
You can't drape your views and say it's in the name of the Quran, it is exactly what terrorist groups do and history shows the many times people have killed in the name of God. So you have no right to be that arrogant on your ability to interpret the Quran. Being merciful and out to get people are conflicts,
i already told you that iam a terrorist for gays but with a slight difference
, i dont kill them..i just warn themhehehe, look who's talkingI believe Allah is all merciful and punishment comes down to the people who know they're doing something wrong and continue to do it.
I have argued that islam teaches pluralism and that we should accept our brothers and sisters regardless of gender, race, orientation, opinion, etc. And because you don't understand what it's like to be homosexual, doesn't mean you should condemn it, especially after I have pointed reasons from all the quotes you posted that it fails to argue homosexuality is wrong.
regardless of gender ????????????
and you got left and right on this topic my brother, and regarding homosexuality everything is crystal clear from my side
keep on trying
saying something is crystal clear doesn't make it so, it just proves your stupidity. The Quran is bound by time, that's why we have MHI because he's our LIVING IMAM. It was the basis of the shia-sunni split. Are you even an ismaili or too narrow minded to accept even the most obvious aspects of your faith because it proves you wrong?
I feel gay marriage should be allowed in the future within Islam, but obviously, this would have to be legally validated first and go through that procress, in the US.
To say homosexuality is bound by civil law is to say the same for heterosexuality. You can't discriminate an option if you don't have an understanding of how it works and why because of the way it works can warrant discrimination.
"look whose talking" really now? I thought you were more mature than this, I guess I overestimated you, I figured you have the intellect to realize I would argue something that I believe to be right, I accept that you believe homosexuality is wrong.
You don't believe women shouldn't have the same rights as men or be treated equally? If you're serious about that, leave the homosexuality debate on the homosexuality thread and let's focus on this.
I feel gay marriage should be allowed in the future within Islam, but obviously, this would have to be legally validated first and go through that procress, in the US.
To say homosexuality is bound by civil law is to say the same for heterosexuality. You can't discriminate an option if you don't have an understanding of how it works and why because of the way it works can warrant discrimination.
"look whose talking" really now? I thought you were more mature than this, I guess I overestimated you, I figured you have the intellect to realize I would argue something that I believe to be right, I accept that you believe homosexuality is wrong.
You don't believe women shouldn't have the same rights as men or be treated equally? If you're serious about that, leave the homosexuality debate on the homosexuality thread and let's focus on this.
saying something is crystal clear doesn't make it so, it just proves your stupidity. The Quran is bound by time, that's why we have MHI because he's our LIVING IMAM. It was the basis of the shia-sunni split. Are you even an ismaili or too narrow minded to accept even the most obvious aspects of your faith because it proves you wrong?
can calling gays as fags or homo's change the meaning of those who swing the other way ??? no ryte ? similarly saying that nothing is crystal clear even after authentic proofs are given shows how genius you are
i disagree with you , quran is not time bound @ your interpretation is
, imam e zaman interprets quran for us and this is what he said in all his golden jubilee visits " The diverse Ismaili community has been united over many centuries by an allegiance to the living hereditary Imam of the time.
My responsibilities as Imam for interpreting the faith are thus accompanied by a strong engagement with issues relating to the quality of life, affirming the dignity of all peoples."
our imam e zaman never changed even a single aayat in holy quran, he never said that surah yasin is wrong or surah nisa is right, he just gives us his interpretation and since we gave bayyat to our holy imam we should follow wutever he said , simple !!!
once again imam always interprets quran, he never changes it or says its worthless or time bound....there is a hadith which says
"quran is with ali and ali is with quran"
iam talking about ismailism in general, do you think gay marriage should be allowed in our jamatkhanaI feel gay marriage should be allowed in the future within Islam, but obviously, this would have to be legally validated first and go through that procress, in the US.
yes or no please
oh my god !! mr.genius there is a difference between heterosex laws and homosex lawsTo say homosexuality is bound by civil law is to say the same for heterosexuality. You can't discriminate an option if you don't have an understanding of how it works and why because of the way it works can warrant discrimination.
and mooooooooost of allhomosex is bound by civil[manmade] laws whereas
heterosex is bound by both civil[manmade] and religious[godmade] laws
since homosex has no place is any religion it is just a lewd practise invented by gays and not by god and hence we have religious laws to punish fagz like you and show mercy if they amend
if woman were treated like nuns in ismailism then we wouldn't have seen our sister achieve what they have achieved in the past as well as in present, god said in holy quran that man and woman are equal then who am i to say man is superior ???You don't believe women shouldn't have the same rights as men or be treated equally? If you're serious about that, leave the homosexuality debate on the homosexuality thread and let's focus on this.
but you've said in previous posts that you're against feminism, which fights for equal rights in society for females. So you're sending mixed messages here.
(I'm going to respond to your remarks on homosexuality on the homosexuality thread because having the same argument on 2 different threads makes it seem pretty redundant)
(I'm going to respond to your remarks on homosexuality on the homosexuality thread because having the same argument on 2 different threads makes it seem pretty redundant)
but you've said in previous posts that you're against feminism, which fights for equal rights in society for females. So you're sending mixed messages here.
(I'm going to respond to your remarks on homosexuality on the homosexuality thread because having the same argument on 2 different threads makes it seem pretty redundant)
what ?? when did i said iam against feminism ?? please i insist do not mix your opinion with mine and present this mixture to my brothers and sisters, i never said that !