Prophet mohamed pbuhf said ali is to me as harun was to musa but there is no propeht after me , that means imamat started then , not before that , Thats the reason why the notion imamat came in to being coz there is no more prophets comeing after our last beloved prophet mohamed pbuhf .
I believe that the imamat started After the physical depart of prophet mohamed pbuhf , I believe that imamat started then , not before that , if was the case ali as would have also said that he is known as krishna amongst indians , There is no haidth or any kind of information in shia islamic encyclopedia about krishna , In shia islamic encyclopedia i believe krishan is not known as a imam or a guide at all , It is widly believed that krishna is not a part of monotheistic religion but of polythesitic religion , to my veiw no prophet or saint or any imam would advised idolship , Idolship is seen as shirk in shia encyclopedia and also in sunni ecyclopedia , This is my personal view neither iam a saint nor iam a pir or any kind of spiritual being , I belive our mhi is the guide for all human kind and also the deceisive proof of allah the most high on earth . i dont want to offend any body this is only my personal opinion.
Imams Pre-Ali
There is a hadith which states:change786 wrote:Prophet mohamed pbuhf said ali is to me as harun was to musa but there is no propeht after me , that means imamat started then , not before that , Thats the reason why the notion imamat came in to being coz there is no more prophets comeing after our last beloved prophet mohamed pbuhf .
I believe that the imamat started After the physical depart of prophet mohamed pbuhf , I believe that imamat started then , not before that , if was the case ali as would have also said that he is known as krishna amongst indians ,
"If the world remain without an Imam even for a moment, verily the earth would perish with all its population."
Ismaili belief is that Imamat has existed since creation. Prophet Muhammad introduced a new cycle of Imamat. If you want to know more about it read Paradise of Submission Chapters 24 and 26.
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samirnoorali
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:18 pm
Imams prior to Ali ibn Abu Talib
I’m very happy to see kandani mention the manifestations of divine presence on Earth. As it is important to realize that the Pirs, especially Pir Sadardin, did a lot of justice to bring about the linkages between Imams prior to Ali and the present Imams known commonly in Shia Islam.
It is important to realize that Simon was given the title of Cephas, by Jesus Christ, a title which in Greek later came to be known as Peter. It is interesting to note that Simon Peter was the Imam of the time, known as the first Pope. Jesus Christ, like Mohamed, was the Pir of his time and his message was simple - to declare the manifestation of God on Earth. Like Ali, Simon was put to the throne but was opposed by individuals who sought to deny his authority. Like Abu Bakar, Saint Paul was bitter against Simon Peter and as we know in history the second Pope was Linus, and no mention of Adnan is present in the lineage.
From Adnan the leadership continued to Abu Talib, the father of Ali. Ali became Imam upon the death of Abu Talib. This is not a history found anywhere. Sadly, it is a hidden history.
It is important to realize that Simon was given the title of Cephas, by Jesus Christ, a title which in Greek later came to be known as Peter. It is interesting to note that Simon Peter was the Imam of the time, known as the first Pope. Jesus Christ, like Mohamed, was the Pir of his time and his message was simple - to declare the manifestation of God on Earth. Like Ali, Simon was put to the throne but was opposed by individuals who sought to deny his authority. Like Abu Bakar, Saint Paul was bitter against Simon Peter and as we know in history the second Pope was Linus, and no mention of Adnan is present in the lineage.
From Adnan the leadership continued to Abu Talib, the father of Ali. Ali became Imam upon the death of Abu Talib. This is not a history found anywhere. Sadly, it is a hidden history.
Re: Imams prior to Ali ibn Abu Talib
I wouldn't say it's a hidden history - it's mentioned in great detail in Pir Sadardin's Vanshavni.samirnoorali wrote:I’m very happy to see kandani mention the manifestations of divine presence on Earth. As it is important to realize that the Pirs, especially Pir Sadardin, did a lot of justice to bring about the linkages between Imams prior to Ali and the present Imams known commonly in Shia Islam.
It is important to realize that Simon was given the title of Cephas, by Jesus Christ, a title which in Greek later came to be known as Peter. It is interesting to note that Simon Peter was the Imam of the time, known as the first Pope. Jesus Christ, like Mohamed, was the Pir of his time and his message was simple - to declare the manifestation of God on Earth. Like Ali, Simon was put to the throne but was opposed by individuals who sought to deny his authority. Like Abu Bakar, Saint Paul was bitter against Simon Peter and as we know in history the second Pope was Linus, and no mention of Adnan is present in the lineage.
From Adnan the leadership continued to Abu Talib, the father of Ali. Ali became Imam upon the death of Abu Talib. This is not a history found anywhere. Sadly, it is a hidden history.
St. Paul was someone that never met Nabi Issa during Nabi Issa's natural lifetime.
Shams
Re: Imams prior to Ali ibn Abu Talib
It is hidden in the sense that it is not highlighted in the ‘zaheri’ domain. The constitution does not mention it and MHI refers to Hazarat Ali as the first Imam in his speeches and even in some of his Farmans. I think the main reason for this is that we are in the bridge building phase with other tariqahs and hence we are highlighting areas of commonalities rather then differences.ShamsB wrote: I wouldn't say it's a hidden history - it's mentioned in great detail in Pir Sadardin's Vanshavni.
It is very difficult for the rest of the Shias and Muslims at large to conceive that there was ‘Islamic’ history prior to Muhammad. The pre-Alid Imamat will remain in the ‘batini’ domain.
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arshad1988
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Re: Imams prior to Ali ibn Abu Talib
Hazar Imam chooses his words very carefully - he says 1st Imam of the Shia Muslims in some instances.....kmaherali wrote:It is hidden in the sense that it is not highlighted in the ‘zaheri’ domain. The constitution does not mention it and MHI refers to Hazarat Ali as the first Imam in his speeches and even in some of his Farmans. I think the main reason for this is that we are in the bridge building phase with other tariqahs and hence we are highlighting areas of commonalities rather then differences.ShamsB wrote: I wouldn't say it's a hidden history - it's mentioned in great detail in Pir Sadardin's Vanshavni.
It is very difficult for the rest of the Shias and Muslims at large to conceive that there was ‘Islamic’ history prior to Muhammad. The pre-Alid Imamat will remain in the ‘batini’ domain.
Shams
he fact that Abu talib was not an imam:
The propagation through practice of Islam by the Holy Prophet and the increase in the number of his followers paved the way for the open invitation of the people to Islam. God commanded the Holy Prophet of Islam to invite his close relatives. And warn your nearest relatives' (26:214).
In this way, backbiters could not say, Why do you not call your own relatives to worship the One God and warn them of God's severe punishment?' Moreover, the support of the relatives of the Prophet would help the promotion of Islam. So the Holy Prophet told Ali to prepare a meal and invite their relatives, who numbered about 40. After preparing the meal, Ali invited them. All the relatives of the Holy Prophet accepted the invitation and ate the meal prepared by the blessed hands of Ali. Although the food was not sufficient for even one person, all 40 people were full after eating that blessed food and, strangely enough, the food had not diminished at all. This amazed all of them but the obstinate Abu Lahab, who said without thinking, This is magic and charms'. The foolish man disregarded the fact that magic and charms cannot feed people!
On that day the Prophet said nothing about the matter. Perhaps his silence was due to the fact that he wanted them to realize the difference between a miracle' and magic' because if magic were the cause the guests would feel hungry after leaving the house of the Holy Prophet.
Since this gathering did not give any favourable result, the Holy Prophet invited them for the next day. Again the same reception was repeated and all were filled. Yet the food was not reduced even after the meal was over.
Then the Prophet said, 0 sons of Abdul Muttalib. God has assigned me to warn you of the painful torments of the wrongdoers and give you the good news of His reward to the pious believers. Become Muslims and follow me to achieve salvation. I swear by Almighty God that among all Arabs I do not know anyone who has brought his people anything better than what I have brought you. I have brought you prosperity and salvation both in this world and in the hereafter. The Gracious God has commanded me to call you all to worship Him. Now which one of you is willing to help me with the task? Anybody who announces his readiness to help me will be my brother, my successor, and the executor of my will'.
Nobody answered but Ali, who was the youngest. He stood up and said, "O Prophet of God. I am your assistant. I am your supporter".
The Prophet asked him to sit down. He repeated the same saying three times but no one except Ali replied to him. Then the Prophet pointed to Ali and said: "He is my brother, my successor and the executor of my will among you. Listen to him and obey him" (icon_cool.gif ~
It was on this very day that a number of people came to believe in the faith of the Holy Prophet of Islam,~ but ignorance and bigotry hindered some of his relatives from believing in his message. However, this gathering was effective in gaining support for the Holy Prophet.
Abu talib was present when prophet mohamed pbuhf announced this and no body but ali as stood all three times being the first to accept islam , if abu talib was imam then why was not he the first one to accept the proposition of islam that the prophet mohamed pbuhf announced.
kandani says abu talib was an imam , why didnt he accept what the prophet pbuhf announced , why was not he the first one to believe.
Shia imami ismaili muslims
we are not just ismailis , we are first musulman and then shia and then ismailis
pir nasir khusrow too was pir , he said the first imam is ali and also the last will be ali, this pir never talked of any imam pre Ali as .
The propagation through practice of Islam by the Holy Prophet and the increase in the number of his followers paved the way for the open invitation of the people to Islam. God commanded the Holy Prophet of Islam to invite his close relatives. And warn your nearest relatives' (26:214).
In this way, backbiters could not say, Why do you not call your own relatives to worship the One God and warn them of God's severe punishment?' Moreover, the support of the relatives of the Prophet would help the promotion of Islam. So the Holy Prophet told Ali to prepare a meal and invite their relatives, who numbered about 40. After preparing the meal, Ali invited them. All the relatives of the Holy Prophet accepted the invitation and ate the meal prepared by the blessed hands of Ali. Although the food was not sufficient for even one person, all 40 people were full after eating that blessed food and, strangely enough, the food had not diminished at all. This amazed all of them but the obstinate Abu Lahab, who said without thinking, This is magic and charms'. The foolish man disregarded the fact that magic and charms cannot feed people!
On that day the Prophet said nothing about the matter. Perhaps his silence was due to the fact that he wanted them to realize the difference between a miracle' and magic' because if magic were the cause the guests would feel hungry after leaving the house of the Holy Prophet.
Since this gathering did not give any favourable result, the Holy Prophet invited them for the next day. Again the same reception was repeated and all were filled. Yet the food was not reduced even after the meal was over.
Then the Prophet said, 0 sons of Abdul Muttalib. God has assigned me to warn you of the painful torments of the wrongdoers and give you the good news of His reward to the pious believers. Become Muslims and follow me to achieve salvation. I swear by Almighty God that among all Arabs I do not know anyone who has brought his people anything better than what I have brought you. I have brought you prosperity and salvation both in this world and in the hereafter. The Gracious God has commanded me to call you all to worship Him. Now which one of you is willing to help me with the task? Anybody who announces his readiness to help me will be my brother, my successor, and the executor of my will'.
Nobody answered but Ali, who was the youngest. He stood up and said, "O Prophet of God. I am your assistant. I am your supporter".
The Prophet asked him to sit down. He repeated the same saying three times but no one except Ali replied to him. Then the Prophet pointed to Ali and said: "He is my brother, my successor and the executor of my will among you. Listen to him and obey him" (icon_cool.gif ~
It was on this very day that a number of people came to believe in the faith of the Holy Prophet of Islam,~ but ignorance and bigotry hindered some of his relatives from believing in his message. However, this gathering was effective in gaining support for the Holy Prophet.
Abu talib was present when prophet mohamed pbuhf announced this and no body but ali as stood all three times being the first to accept islam , if abu talib was imam then why was not he the first one to accept the proposition of islam that the prophet mohamed pbuhf announced.
kandani says abu talib was an imam , why didnt he accept what the prophet pbuhf announced , why was not he the first one to believe.
Shia imami ismaili muslims
we are not just ismailis , we are first musulman and then shia and then ismailis
pir nasir khusrow too was pir , he said the first imam is ali and also the last will be ali, this pir never talked of any imam pre Ali as .
Nasir Khusraw was a dai - not an Imam Mustawada (Kmaherali - correct if wrong terminology).change786 wrote:he fact that Abu talib was not an imam:
The propagation through practice of Islam by the Holy Prophet and the increase in the number of his followers paved the way for the open invitation of the people to Islam. God commanded the Holy Prophet of Islam to invite his close relatives. And warn your nearest relatives' (26:214).
In this way, backbiters could not say, Why do you not call your own relatives to worship the One God and warn them of God's severe punishment?' Moreover, the support of the relatives of the Prophet would help the promotion of Islam. So the Holy Prophet told Ali to prepare a meal and invite their relatives, who numbered about 40. After preparing the meal, Ali invited them. All the relatives of the Holy Prophet accepted the invitation and ate the meal prepared by the blessed hands of Ali. Although the food was not sufficient for even one person, all 40 people were full after eating that blessed food and, strangely enough, the food had not diminished at all. This amazed all of them but the obstinate Abu Lahab, who said without thinking, This is magic and charms'. The foolish man disregarded the fact that magic and charms cannot feed people!
On that day the Prophet said nothing about the matter. Perhaps his silence was due to the fact that he wanted them to realize the difference between a miracle' and magic' because if magic were the cause the guests would feel hungry after leaving the house of the Holy Prophet.
Since this gathering did not give any favourable result, the Holy Prophet invited them for the next day. Again the same reception was repeated and all were filled. Yet the food was not reduced even after the meal was over.
Then the Prophet said, 0 sons of Abdul Muttalib. God has assigned me to warn you of the painful torments of the wrongdoers and give you the good news of His reward to the pious believers. Become Muslims and follow me to achieve salvation. I swear by Almighty God that among all Arabs I do not know anyone who has brought his people anything better than what I have brought you. I have brought you prosperity and salvation both in this world and in the hereafter. The Gracious God has commanded me to call you all to worship Him. Now which one of you is willing to help me with the task? Anybody who announces his readiness to help me will be my brother, my successor, and the executor of my will'.
Nobody answered but Ali, who was the youngest. He stood up and said, "O Prophet of God. I am your assistant. I am your supporter".
The Prophet asked him to sit down. He repeated the same saying three times but no one except Ali replied to him. Then the Prophet pointed to Ali and said: "He is my brother, my successor and the executor of my will among you. Listen to him and obey him" (icon_cool.gif ~
It was on this very day that a number of people came to believe in the faith of the Holy Prophet of Islam,~ but ignorance and bigotry hindered some of his relatives from believing in his message. However, this gathering was effective in gaining support for the Holy Prophet.
Abu talib was present when prophet mohamed pbuhf announced this and no body but ali as stood all three times being the first to accept islam , if abu talib was imam then why was not he the first one to accept the proposition of islam that the prophet mohamed pbuhf announced.
kandani says abu talib was an imam , why didnt he accept what the prophet pbuhf announced , why was not he the first one to believe.
Shia imami ismaili muslims
we are not just ismailis , we are first musulman and then shia and then ismailis
pir nasir khusrow too was pir , he said the first imam is ali and also the last will be ali, this pir never talked of any imam pre Ali as .
In our dua we recite in the 3rd part of dua - O apostle deliver to the people what has been revealed to thee from thy lord.
so the prophet wasn't told to appoint his successor or tell the people what his decision was - but rather deliver what had been REVEALED TO HIM.
The revealation? - that Ali was the Imam after Abu Talib. Ali wasn't the Imam after the appointment of Ghadir e Khumm - but rather after the death of Abu Talib - think about that - when did Ali become the Imam?
Shams
so the prophet wasn't told to appoint his successor or tell the people what his decision was - but rather deliver what had been REVEALED TO HIM.
The revealation? - that Ali was the Imam after Abu Talib. Ali wasn't the Imam after the appointment of Ghadir e Khumm - but rather after the death of Abu Talib - think about that - when did Ali become the Imam?
in no tradition it says that abu talib was an imam , i undrestand what it says in the third phase of our dua , it never says in there that ali as is the imam after abu talib , it never mentions the name ali as or abu talib , the revelation was that ali was mohameds pbuhf sucsessor not abu talibs
Then the Prophet said, 0 sons of Abdul Muttalib. God has assigned me to warn you of the painful torments of the wrongdoers and give you the good news of His reward to the pious believers. Become Muslims and follow me to achieve salvation. I swear by Almighty God that among all Arabs I do not know anyone who has brought his people anything better than what I have brought you. I have brought you prosperity and salvation both in this world and in the hereafter. The Gracious God has commanded me to call you all to worship Him. Now which one of you is willing to help me with the task? Anybody who announces his readiness to help me will be my brother, my successor, and the executor of my will'.
Nobody answered but Ali, who was the youngest. He stood up and said, "O Prophet of God. I am your assistant. I am your supporter".
The Prophet asked him to sit down. He repeated the same saying three times but no one except Ali replied to him. Then the Prophet pointed to Ali and said: "He is my brother, my successor and the executor of my will among you. Listen to him and obey him" (icon_cool.gif ~
why did abu talib not accepted what the messenger of allah subhantallah had announced rather his son accepted , answer me this question please?
if he was imam wouldnt he be the first one to accept ?
The revealation? - that Ali was the Imam after Abu Talib. Ali wasn't the Imam after the appointment of Ghadir e Khumm - but rather after the death of Abu Talib - think about that - when did Ali become the Imam?
in no tradition it says that abu talib was an imam , i undrestand what it says in the third phase of our dua , it never says in there that ali as is the imam after abu talib , it never mentions the name ali as or abu talib , the revelation was that ali was mohameds pbuhf sucsessor not abu talibs
Then the Prophet said, 0 sons of Abdul Muttalib. God has assigned me to warn you of the painful torments of the wrongdoers and give you the good news of His reward to the pious believers. Become Muslims and follow me to achieve salvation. I swear by Almighty God that among all Arabs I do not know anyone who has brought his people anything better than what I have brought you. I have brought you prosperity and salvation both in this world and in the hereafter. The Gracious God has commanded me to call you all to worship Him. Now which one of you is willing to help me with the task? Anybody who announces his readiness to help me will be my brother, my successor, and the executor of my will'.
Nobody answered but Ali, who was the youngest. He stood up and said, "O Prophet of God. I am your assistant. I am your supporter".
The Prophet asked him to sit down. He repeated the same saying three times but no one except Ali replied to him. Then the Prophet pointed to Ali and said: "He is my brother, my successor and the executor of my will among you. Listen to him and obey him" (icon_cool.gif ~
why did abu talib not accepted what the messenger of allah subhantallah had announced rather his son accepted , answer me this question please?
if he was imam wouldnt he be the first one to accept ?
Imamat before Hazarat Ali was hidden in the sense that it was restricted to only a few people who belonged to the Jamat at that time. The revelation provided the basis of making the Imamat apparent to all; i.e., the Imam was a successor to the Prophet. It was only appropriate that the inheritor to the Prophet appear as his first helper and hence provide the basis for others to accept him. Abu Talib supported and protected the Prophet all the time silently. Infact he looked after him after the death of his father and grandfather.change786 wrote:kandani says abu talib was an imam , why didnt he accept what the prophet pbuhf announced , why was not he the first one to believe..
Nasir Khusraw was not an appoited Pir, he was a great dai who was given the title of the Pir after his death. Pir Sadardin in the Old Dua mentions the pre-Alid Imams. As I said before we are not highlighting the differences but rather aspects that unite us with other Shias/muslims.change786 wrote: Shia imami ismaili muslims
we are not just ismailis , we are first musulman and then shia and then ismailis
pir nasir khusrow too was pir , he said the first imam is ali and also the last will be ali, this pir never talked of any imam pre Ali as .
Yes we are Muslims with our interpretation of Islam. We accept the Shahada as the fundamental principle. There is diversity in Islam....
In our faith there is diversity of cultural and historical tradition. Nasir khusraw and his writings represent/reflect one facet/aspect of it. There are other traditions as well. You should not confine yourself to one tradition only. Read Tusi and our Ginans as well. Tusi has given a very good explanation on pre-Alid Imams in his Paradise of Submission, Chapters 24 and 26. You should read it as well.change786 wrote: pir nasir khusrow too was pir , he said the first imam is ali and also the last will be ali, this pir never talked of any imam pre Ali as .
Kmaherali, I agree with you on that, in my conversations with Ismailis from the Tajiki Tradition as well as the Syrian Tradition - I have found that the idea of perpetual Imamat - i.e. from the first day to the day of judgement is a common theme - they may not know the names of the Imams, but the idea is accepted and understood, according to some of them, Dai Nasir Khusraw did not bring about ismailism - they were already ismailies, he brought about a new tradition.kmaherali wrote:In our faith there is diversity of cultural and historical tradition. Nasir khusraw and his writings represent/reflect one facet/aspect of it. There are other traditions as well. You should not confine yourself to one tradition only. Read Tusi and our Ginans as well. Tusi has given a very good explanation on pre-Alid Imams in his Paradise of Submission, Chapters 24 and 26. You should read it as well.change786 wrote: pir nasir khusrow too was pir , he said the first imam is ali and also the last will be ali, this pir never talked of any imam pre Ali as .
Shams
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samirnoorali
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 1:18 pm
Lineage of Ali and the difference between Pirs and Dais
With regards to Nasir Khusraw there are some things that must be mentioned. Nasir Khusraw was a very important person in the history of Ismailis. He vividly wrote down in the Safar Nama one of the most vivid accounts of the Fatimid Empire and the Imam of that time.
Ismailis remember him as a dai, a person who spread Ismaili teachings to across central Asia. He was a fantastic poet and writer on spiritual matters. The likes of his works are next to none. Many Ismailis look to Nasir Khusraw as the one who converted them, the one who showed the Imam of the time.
The Jamats of India were mainly converted by Pirs, while other countries were converted by dais. Confusion arises when dais and Pirs are put in the same category, something which needs to be clarified. The question is are Pirs such as Pir Sadardin, Pir Sat Gur Noor, Pir Shams, and Pir Tajdin, the same as Nasir Khusraw, Sabzali, Syed Imam Shah, and Syed Imam Begam?
Let us remember that Nabi Mohamed was born in Arabia, and the people of Japan, the people of China, the people of Russia were not graced by the immediate presence of the Prophet. Physically that was not the case. But just because Nabi Mohamed was born in Arabia, doesn’t mean that he was excluding other nations around the world. He was known as a mercy to “all mankind,” and Islam was meant for all of humanity.
Similarly, the Noor of Piratan continued from Mohamed and to this day there are 50 Pirs. Piratan was not passed down in a straight line, but manifested as necessary from time to time. These 50 Pirs included Mata Salamat who was a woman.
Accordingly, what constitutes a Pir? I’m not referring to a title; I’m referring to the noorani aspect. A Pir is a manifestation of the very soul of Moses, David, Jesus, and Mohamed. That soul is one, and cannot be identified by any other personage.
Therefore, Pir Sadardin, for example was the Prophet Mohamed himself. I cannot be more direct in my statement. This is something very few jamats understand because it wipes away the entire concept of current Islamic thought and brings about an almost radical idea. If that is the case would anybody claim that Nasir Khusraw, Syed Imam Shah, Syed Imam Begum were manifestations of Mohamed? Were they appointed by the Imam from his own lineage? No.
Having said that, we respect Nasir Khusraw and many dais, saints and syeds, but none of them carry the Noor of Mohamed. Only Pir Sadardin, Pir Shams, Pir Tajdin, and the present living Pir Karim Aga Khan are the bearers of that Noor.
Jesus Christ in his time was the Noor and his decendant Mohamed is that very Noor. What catches mankind is that Imamat is easy to understand, but when a duality is involved, Imam and Pir, then confusion arises.
Hindus, according to modern thought, are not considered related to the giant monotheistic faiths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. They are considered idol worshipers. But if you really understand Hinduism and Budhism, which predates the three monotheistic religions then you find a certain respect for them as well. Hinduism accepts Ram to be Allah’s (Vishnu’s) manifestation on Earth. His brother, Lakshman was considered the Pir of his time. So what is the harm in saying that Hinduism, Budhism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are related to one another? Yes, they are. So we can continue to argue with one another but in the end all roads lead to the same God.
Ismailis remember him as a dai, a person who spread Ismaili teachings to across central Asia. He was a fantastic poet and writer on spiritual matters. The likes of his works are next to none. Many Ismailis look to Nasir Khusraw as the one who converted them, the one who showed the Imam of the time.
The Jamats of India were mainly converted by Pirs, while other countries were converted by dais. Confusion arises when dais and Pirs are put in the same category, something which needs to be clarified. The question is are Pirs such as Pir Sadardin, Pir Sat Gur Noor, Pir Shams, and Pir Tajdin, the same as Nasir Khusraw, Sabzali, Syed Imam Shah, and Syed Imam Begam?
Let us remember that Nabi Mohamed was born in Arabia, and the people of Japan, the people of China, the people of Russia were not graced by the immediate presence of the Prophet. Physically that was not the case. But just because Nabi Mohamed was born in Arabia, doesn’t mean that he was excluding other nations around the world. He was known as a mercy to “all mankind,” and Islam was meant for all of humanity.
Similarly, the Noor of Piratan continued from Mohamed and to this day there are 50 Pirs. Piratan was not passed down in a straight line, but manifested as necessary from time to time. These 50 Pirs included Mata Salamat who was a woman.
Accordingly, what constitutes a Pir? I’m not referring to a title; I’m referring to the noorani aspect. A Pir is a manifestation of the very soul of Moses, David, Jesus, and Mohamed. That soul is one, and cannot be identified by any other personage.
Therefore, Pir Sadardin, for example was the Prophet Mohamed himself. I cannot be more direct in my statement. This is something very few jamats understand because it wipes away the entire concept of current Islamic thought and brings about an almost radical idea. If that is the case would anybody claim that Nasir Khusraw, Syed Imam Shah, Syed Imam Begum were manifestations of Mohamed? Were they appointed by the Imam from his own lineage? No.
Having said that, we respect Nasir Khusraw and many dais, saints and syeds, but none of them carry the Noor of Mohamed. Only Pir Sadardin, Pir Shams, Pir Tajdin, and the present living Pir Karim Aga Khan are the bearers of that Noor.
Jesus Christ in his time was the Noor and his decendant Mohamed is that very Noor. What catches mankind is that Imamat is easy to understand, but when a duality is involved, Imam and Pir, then confusion arises.
Hindus, according to modern thought, are not considered related to the giant monotheistic faiths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. They are considered idol worshipers. But if you really understand Hinduism and Budhism, which predates the three monotheistic religions then you find a certain respect for them as well. Hinduism accepts Ram to be Allah’s (Vishnu’s) manifestation on Earth. His brother, Lakshman was considered the Pir of his time. So what is the harm in saying that Hinduism, Budhism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are related to one another? Yes, they are. So we can continue to argue with one another but in the end all roads lead to the same God.
Re: Lineage of Ali and the difference between Pirs and Dais
Any individual can elevate himself to the spiritual status of the Nur of Mohammad, but not anyone can be appointed as a Pir. Hence it is quite possible that Nasir Khusraw, Sayyed Imam Shah and many others could have attained the status of the Prophet though were not appointed as Pirs.samirnoorali wrote: If that is the case would anybody claim that Nasir Khusraw, Syed Imam Shah, Syed Imam Begum were manifestations of Mohamed? Were they appointed by the Imam from his own lineage? No.