Imam Shah. Syed or Pir

adnan.ali · Post by **adnan.ali** » Fri Jan 11, 2008 9:09 pm

<P>Pir are the menifestation of Muhammad (the creator) and know all the sacred knowlede (brahma Gyan) which they revealed in their ginan. pir sadrdin and pir hasan kabirdin on several occasions mentioned the name of imam shah (their gandson and son respectivily) with t he title of pir. infact imam shah's all ginan ends with pir imam shah. why that word pir is now replaced with syed. just because the list of pir doesnot contain the name of syed imam shah. or do they consider that pir sadrdin or hasan kabirdin made any mistakes? </P>

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:37 am

Sayyed Imam Shah though the son of Pir Hassan Kabirdeen was not appointed Pir by the Imam. An account of Sayyed Imam Shah is given at:

http://www.ismaili.net/hero/hero25.html

The following is an excerpt from it.

"The following Thursday, Hazrat Imam Muhammad bin Islam Shah graced the place with his presence and received Syed Imam-ud-din. The Imam enquired about the welfare of Jamats in his father's jurisdiction and in the course of audience, the Imam was pleased to reveal the appointment of Syed Imam-ud-din's uncle, Syed Tajdeen, as the next Pir in succession to Pir Hasan Kabir-ud-din. He urged upon the young Imam-ud-din to rededicate himself, with renewed zeal to the task on concerted prayers and intensive propagation of Ismaili faith in accordance with the last wishes of his father.

On hearing the appointment of Pir Tajdeen in succession to Pir Hasan Kabir-ud-din, Syed Imam-ud-din was visibly effected, frustration and disappointment showing in his face. The Imam, seeing his reaction, consoled him and re-assured him that, though Piratan was not his destiny yet, the Imam was pleased to bestow the Mystic Great Name on him and ordered him to continue his mission on the Gujrat Coast."

adnan.ali · Post by **adnan.ali** » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:55 pm

thanks for reply brother. but our pir have the knowledge of past as well as the future. so knowing that syed imam shah would not be appointed as pir why pir hasan kabir din and pir sadrdin accounted him as a pir.

kmaherali · Post by **kmaherali** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:30 am

adnan.ali wrote:thanks for reply brother. but our pir have the knowledge of past as well as the future. so knowing that syed imam shah would not be appointed as pir why pir hasan kabir din and pir sadrdin accounted him as a pir.

Can you provide examples of the Ginans. It could just be that those scribes who wrote the Ginans later attributed the title of Pir to him or the later Imams may have given Sayyed Imam Shah the title of Pir posthumously (after his death) just like Pir Subzali...

adnan.ali · Post by **adnan.ali** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:26 am

there are many such references but i m mentioning 2 which i remembered. pacham thi shah na dal and mata ho fatima ne hasan hussaini. both by pir sadrdin. in the second reference i mentioned. pir sadrdin give a brief discription of some pirs of past and future and included the name of pir imam shah after pir hasan kabirdin in the 7th part.

Post by **Admin** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:20 am

In some ginans, he is refered to Pir Imamdin but this is as a title, not as a status like we can say Mowlana Ali and we would take it as a Status but say Mowlana Rumi and still knowing that there is a vast difference between the two though they are called with the same respectable word "Mawlana".

ShamsB · Post by **ShamsB** » Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:58 am

Admin wrote:In some ginans, he is refered to Pir Imamdin but this is as a title, not as a status like we can say Mowlana Ali and we would take it as a Status but say Mowlana Rumi and still knowing that there is a vast difference between the two though they are called with the same respectable word "Mawlana".

There is Pir Indra Imamdeen and Syed Indra Imamshah. 2 different individuals.
One was Pir prior to Pir Sadardeen and the other was the son of Pir Hasan Qabirdeen.

Shams

star_munir · Post by **star_munir** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:18 pm

In brief history of Ismailism, Abu Ali Missionary has written "Pir Imamudin (our 8th Pir) served served his father Imam Muhammad bin Ismail and brother Imam Wafi Ahmed. He died at the age of 51 in 202 A.H...........Pir Imamudin is mentioned as Pir Indra Imam din in popular list of Holy Pirs. Indra is an Indian title. The Pir never visited India. Some transcribers has made this mistake. The 20th holy Pir Salamuddin was Imamudin where he was called as Mahadev...Another Syed Imamuddin (also called as Syed Indra Imam Shah) was the son of Pir Hassan Kabirdin. Syed Imam Shah was not a Pir or Hujjat ul Imam. He served as dai for Imam-e-Zaman throughout his life. He converted thousands of people to Ismailism. "