Sijda

[star_munir]

Once upon a time Camel of one Ansari became mad. When some one told this to Prophet[PBUH} He went over there. Some muslims said to Hazrat Muhammad [PBUH] Do not go infront of Came as he is mad and can cause you harm. Hazrat Muhammad {PBUH} said that I am not afraid of that and When He went there the camel gave sajda to Prophet Muhammd [PBUH].Muslims were surprised to see that then Hazrat Muhammad {PBUH} said that Every one knows that I am Prophet except sinful people and disobedient jinns.

[Guest]

Similar incidences where animals show their reverence to pure souls is indicated in many ginans. For example, in the ginan Satgur Nur na veeva, there is mention of wild beasts and birds bowing their heads to Pir Satgur Nur in verse 10. In verse 16 they joyfully sacrifice their flesh for him!

[Guest]

While I am at it, I thought of another Ginan by Pir Shamsh called "Tiyaa Gur Ginaan karea". This Ginan is available at the Heritage site. It mentions about wild animals listening to his Ginans and others even seeking protection from him!

[star_munir]

Pir Shams and Pir Satgurnur performed great miracles. I think these miracles of our Imams and Pirs should be taught in religious centre to children.

[Guest]

Pir Shams and Pir Satgurnur performed great miracles. I think these miracles of our Imams and Pirs should be taught in religious centre to children.

I agree, but we must be careful how we treat miracles. Miracles should not be the basis of faith as per Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah. What this means is that we do not obey the Imams because they perform miracles. We accept Imammat based on intellect and reason as articulated by Ismaili thinkers at all times. I know today many yogis have acquired the power to perform miracles and indeed Mowlana SultanMuhammad Shah indicated that even magicians perform tricks but the real miracles of Hazarat Aly was to lead you to salvation or 'fanna fi Allah'.

The above notwithstanding, I do believe that miracles have a role as reinforcement to faith especially in esoteric traditions. We hear about Sufi traditions and indeed mystical orders of all faiths using anecdotes alluding to the possiblities of higher existence and hence raise the level of consciousness.

Our Peers have also used miracles in that manner. You will note that after a miracle is mentioned, there is an advice or command to follow the Imam or submit the tithe so that you may attain salvation. the purpose here is to provide a basis of trust in the authority of the Peer and inspire allegiance to the HazarImam.

Miracles also serve as sources of inspiration in the sense that they allude to the potential and possibilities of man. They tell us that, if we elevate ourselves spiritually like the Peers, we will also be in a position to perform miracles and indeed the heavens and the earth will be at our command as mentioned in the following verse of the Ginan, "Sham ku Avanta jo Kahe".

ejee swaamee maaro chatur sujaann hay - aape sreshtth divaan
jeesa ke bharose sthir rahyaa - rahyaa jameen aasmaan........3

My Master is knowing and wise, and his is the supreme authority. He who abides firmly trusting in him has the earth and the sky at his feet.

In the earlier post, I mentioned the incidence of animals to point out that even animals who obeyed the Peer and sought his protection, got it. What can't humans achieve if they followed the Peer.

From a philosophical standpoint, the occurance of miracles at all, is a legitimate mode of inquiry; i.e., we should ask how and why it is possible that miracles happen. I believe that this kind of thinking is the basis of the quest for a higher life.

I will end this post with a quote of Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah in his Memoirs (pg 312) regarding this matter.

"Mr, Chaplin is interested in certain psychical and non-physical phenomena, such as telepathy and its various derivatives. He quoted to me Einstein's demand that ten scientists should witness at the same time, and under prescisely similar conditions, every case of this kind submitted, before he would consider these manifestations proven. He and I agreed that the imposition of this kind of test would make all psychical research and experiment impossible, for these phenomena-and the laws under which they occur-are simply not at the beck and call of human beings".

[star_munir]

Guest you said that
I agree, but we must be careful how we treat miracles. Miracles should not be the basis of faith as per Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah. What this means is that we do not obey the Imams because they perform miracles. We accept Imammat based on intellect and reason as articulated by Ismaili thinkers at all times. I know today many yogis have acquired the power to perform miracles and indeed Mowlana SultanMuhammad Shah indicated that even magicians perform tricks but the real miracles of Hazarat Aly was to lead you to salvation or 'fanna fi Allah'



Surely miracles are not basis of ismailism but when there is need of miracle the Imam of time perform miracle.These miracles increase the imaan. Miracles/karishmey/mojezey/chamatkar etc means the event which is impossible become possible and occur.These can not be done with magic. Yes magician can performed tricks but the miracles which are performed by Imam and Prophet {PBUH} are impossible for any magician to do example miracle of sun by Pir Shams,Miracle of moon of Hazrat Muhammad [PBUH],hindu lady saw in dream that Krishna said her that He will gave her didar near Jk and she got didar of Hazir Imam etc. So these miracles do you think can any magician do??? Every Prophet performed miracles be they Hazrat Essa,Hazrat Mossa,Hazrat Muhammad[PBUH] or any other. People of other religions have books in which there are miracles of their prophets and gods but today many people claims that they are false stories. They cant be true.How this is true that Jesus made dead alive?etc. But ismailis can not say that because their Imam performs miracles in even todays world when there is need to perform and this is proof that miracles happen in this world and the miracles which we have read in books of our earlier prophets are correct. I even myself have experienced miracles when my wishes which are impossible becomes possible by praying. If we see THE IMAM IS IT SELF THE BIGGEST MIRACLE IN THIS WORLD who will be always present in this world for guidance and salvation of people.

IMAM IS ITSELF THE BIGGEST MIRACLE.

[shamsu]

"Mowla Aly noe mojizo ae hato ke potani jagiyae pochade."

The miracle of Mowla Aly was to elevate to his own level.

I think its important to try our best to be exact when quoting our Imam.

The topic being discussed involves miracles and our Imam has beautifully defined what Mowla Aly's miracle is.

So let us keep all these minor miracles aside and focus on the one that matters the most.

Shams

[Guest]

[quote="shamsu"]"Mowla Aly noe mojizo ae hato ke potani jagiyae pochade."

The miracle of Mowla Aly was to elevate to his own level.[quote="shamsu"]"

Thank You for the correction. This enhances my point of view. Next time I will be more careful about the exactness of Imam's word.

[Guest]

Surely miracles are not basis of ismailism but when there is need of miracle the Imam of time perform miracle.These miracles increase the imaan. Miracles/karishmey/mojezey/chamatkar etc means the event which is impossible become possible and occur.These can not be done with magic. Yes magician can performed tricks but the miracles which are performed by Imam and Prophet {PBUH} are impossible for any magician to do example miracle of sun by Pir Shams,Miracle of moon of Hazrat Muhammad [PBUH],hindu lady saw in dream that Krishna said her that He will gave her didar near Jk and she got didar of Hazir Imam etc. So these miracles do you think can any magician do??? Every Prophet performed miracles be they Hazrat Essa,Hazrat Mossa,Hazrat Muhammad[PBUH] or any other. People of other religions have books in which there are miracles of their prophets and gods but today many people claims that they are false stories. They cant be true.How this is true that Jesus made dead alive?etc. But ismailis can not say that because their Imam performs miracles in even todays world when there is need to perform and this is proof that miracles happen in this world and the miracles which we have read in books of our earlier prophets are correct. I even myself have experienced miracles when my wishes which are impossible becomes possible by praying. If we see THE IMAM IS IT SELF THE BIGGEST MIRACLE IN THIS WORLD who will be always present in this world for guidance and salvation of people.

IMAM IS ITSELF THE BIGGEST MIRACLE.

This is getting interesting...If you read my entire note, you will find that we are in agreement that miracles cannot be the basis of faith (like Christianity), that miracles can happen, that they provide reinforcement and inspiration to faith, that Peers can perform miracles when required.

What I disagree about is that only Peers can perform miracles and that miracles mentioned in other traditions are false. What I am saying is that there are individuals born with capacity and who make seroius effort can elevate themselves to the status of performing miracles.

Mowlana Sultan Muhammad Shah says in his "Memoirs", "Hafiz, indeed, has said that men like Jesus Christ, and Muslim mystics like Mansoor and Bayezid and others, have possessed that spiritual power of greater love; that any of us, if the Holy Spirit everpresent grants us that enlightenment, can, being thus blessed, have the power which Christ had, but that to the overwhelming majorityof men this greater love is not a practical possibility."

The above statement clearly indicates that others can also aquire the power that prophets had. Whether they actually feel the need to perform these minor miracles is a secondary issue. At times these can be a hindrance and a nuisance on the path. It is also misleading to say( like official Christianity) that performance of a minor miracle is a sign of spiritual greatness or sainthood.

In the climate of pluralism we cannot say that the basis of other faiths is false or the miracles alluded in other traditions are false. If a momin can perform miracles in our tradition, than it is possible for other traditions to have individuals with the same capacity. I am not sure whether you have read the book, "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda. This book is full of miracles which have been verified! We also know that Sai Baba performs minor miracles. So whom to follow. Clearly reason tells us that there must be an eternal institution for guidance and that is the chain of Imamat. Pluralism has made us aware that these minor miracles are also a phemomena of other faiths and therefore they cannot provide an enduring basis for faith which can only come through intellect and reason. This is an example of the strengthening aspect of pluralism that HazarImam alludes to.

My interest in miracles is about the deeper philosophical issues they raise. What are the implications for cause/effect, spcae/time, this life/hereafter, the heavens, the ethics and values and the purpose of life generally. These issues are the basis for the quest for a higher life and indeed real works of art address and respond to them.

[star_munir]

Ithink you have misunderstand me when you wrote
In the climate of pluralism we cannot say that the basis of other faiths is false or the miracles alluded in other traditions are false. If a momin can perform miracles in our tradition, than it is possible for other traditions to have individuals with the same capacity.

I have NOT said any where that miracles of other religion are false stories what I say is that today in modern world some people thinks that miracles are fairy tales and they can not occur for example how dead person can become alive due to miracle etc as they have read them just in their books and not practically seen ismailis can not say miracles are fairytales because their Imam at present also performs miracle which any other person can not do by his spiritual power as no one can have more or equal power like that of Imam. Yes momins can perform minor miracles but they cant perform big miracles which Imam can perform. Than I have wrote that Hazir Imam is itself the biggest miracle who claims that Imam will always Present in this world through his aal.No one can make such claim.

[Guest]

I agree that Imamat as an eternal institution is the biggest miracle.