Hunzai

[yaali101]

YAM,

The other post regarding this issue has been locked. I believe that it is a right for us to discuss this issue in an appropriate manner. Please refrain from name-calling, libel, etc. One of my friends, who attends the “Hunzai congregations”, had told us about the Hunzai and about his beliefs they hold. He told me that they differ in the view of who MHI is and say that the Imamat “ended” with Mawlana Sultan Muhammad Shah. I wanted to get a reply from Zahir who defended the point that Hunzai has been given praise/approval from the imam of the time. I would like to counter some of his points here and would like people to, in a educated manner, discuss this issue.

//* Allamah Hunzai wrote a series of poems which he published as Diwan-i Nasiri in the 1960's. This was sent to the Imam and he received a Taliqah in which the Imam accepted his 'ginans in Burushaski language'. A copy of the taliqah is in that publication, and these ginans have been the main source of devotional poems in the jamats of Hunza for decades.//

Maybe what he wrote in there was accurate and would be useful for the jamats of Hunza. This can be a result of not having recent farmans translated in the local language. However, maybe recently he could have misinterpreted parts of our religious and could have gone another way (I am in no way saying that he has, but maybe what he has interpreted is not correct for our religion.).

//* Amongst all the vitriol, nothing has been mentioned about the content of the 100 books written by Mr Hunzai, (nor the 60 translated into English) - maybe Mr Surayani has not read these books - he should! For more information, please see [outside link deleted by Admin] (the web site is not down!)//

I agree – he is defiantly well educated in the matter of Islam. I however, still believe that it could be that he has deviated from what the fundamental are – we believe in a present living Imam. If you remember Izazil was also very educated and a great angel, but he led astray.

// * In 2001, Mawlana Hazir Imam graciously bestowed a mulaqat to Allamah Hunzai and Dr Faquir Mohammed Hunzai in the presence of Aitmadi Shafiq Sachedina (Imam's right hand man). In this Mulaqat, Imam asked Allamah Hunzai to work with him and that he (Imam-i Zaman) would work with Allamah Hunzai.//

I have heard that the followers of Hunzai believe that after Mawlana Sultan Muhammad Shah the Imamat was split between MHI and Hunzai. My friend told me about this as well, and he said that this means that both Imam and Hunzai work together. I believe that the statement MHI made could mean that if Hunzai works WITH MHI by continuing to provide the “right” message then MHI will work with him by supporting him.

You all can tell which side I am taking on this issue. I would like us to discuss this matter to find out the fundamentals of the belief of the followers of Hunzai. Please, respect everyone else’s beliefs as Hazar Imam has asked us to. Just as a side note, I have noted cases where the followers contradict the farmans by MHI. MHI has asked us to be well educated and have a balance between the material and spiritual life. My friend would attend the congregations till late, which would cause him to miss out on school, or he would sleep in class. I see this as a contradiction of what MHI is saying.

[curious2]

Okay brother Yaali101, I will respect your views here. But let me try to ask few questions to clarify where you are coming from.

You have so far posted 2 messages to this board but you are complaining with the moderator that he locked this thread, sounds like you are not so happy with this decision, I wonder, are we all here eating "ghaans" for all these times and you all of a sudden came over with two postings of yours and want to debate this matter?? Now don't get offended by my word ghaans but it isn't fair of you to complain anything with just two posts under your belt. Okay?

Now, let me ask you my questions:

You said: One of my friends, who attends the “Hunzai congregations”.

My Question: Brother Yaali101, who is this friend of yours by the way?? Or are you assuming that we should automatically assume that he is your good friend who is telling you the truth, mind you, you are also asking us to assume that we should also assume that you are a good ethical person telling us the truth, even though you have posted only twice. So who is this friend of yours anyway?

You said: say that the Imamat “ended” with Mawlana Sultan Muhammad Shah.

My Question: hmm....if Imamat ended with SMS, then why in the world are we discussing this issue NOW!!!! Did we not care about "hunzai congregation" for all these years??

You said: could be that he has deviated from what the fundamental are

My Question: I love this word fundamental .... mind telling me what are these fundamental you refer to here?? You know we have been circling around this site for such a long time that we don't really know what the fundamentals are, but you sir with just two postings know what the fundamentals are, perhaps admins should close this site and give you the keys so you can all teach us what the fundamentals are. How about that?

You said: If you remember Izazil was also very educated

My Question: Just wonderful, wonderful indeed. I love when we make comparision of any person with Azazil, the books he read, and how knowledgeable he was. Wonderful isn't it? Now let me remember, when is the last time we used that word?? ahha, it was used for Akber Ali Mehrally. But you just used it here! hmm....are you suggesting that there is a new excommunication farman coming over soon?? I think you are, feel compelled to take a side with with Allah, haan?.

You said: I believe that the statement MHI made could mean

My Question: Do you believe or do you believe? Or could it be or it could? Which one is it?

You said: Please, respect everyone else’s beliefs

My Question: Do I even need to ask a question here?? I think not.

[ShamsB]

YAM,



I have heard that the followers of Hunzai believe that after Mawlana Sultan Muhammad Shah the Imamat was split between MHI and Hunzai. My friend told me about this as well, and he said that this means that both Imam and Hunzai work together. I believe that the statement MHI made could mean that if Hunzai works WITH MHI by continuing to provide the “right” message then MHI will work with him by supporting him.

You all can tell which side I am taking on this issue. I would like us to discuss this matter to find out the fundamentals of the belief of the followers of Hunzai. Please, respect everyone else’s beliefs as Hazar Imam has asked us to. Just as a side note, I have noted cases where the followers contradict the farmans by MHI. MHI has asked us to be well educated and have a balance between the material and spiritual life. My friend would attend the congregations till late, which would cause him to miss out on school, or he would sleep in class. I see this as a contradiction of what MHI is saying.

Let's see the last time we had more than one person claiming to be the Imam - Musa Kazim and Ismail.....Mustaeli and Nizar....see the trend.

The only fundamental in Ismailism is the Imam..the only constant in Ismailism is the Imam. We all have given Baiyat to follow the Farmans of the Imam....if one is unwilling or contradicting the farmans of the Imam..one ceases to be an ismaili...and the last time I checked..this was Ismaili.net..not hunzal.net..
Let the Allamah take his followers and leave....

Shams

[yaali101]

Okay brother Yaali101, I will respect your views here. But let me try to ask few questions to clarify where you are coming from.

You have so far posted 2 messages to this board but you are complaining with the moderator that he locked this thread, sounds like you are not so happy with this decision, I wonder, are we all here eating "ghaans" for all these times and you all of a sudden came over with two postings of yours and want to debate this matter?? Now don't get offended by my word ghaans but it isn't fair of you to complain anything with just two posts under your belt. Okay?

Now, let me ask you my questions:

You said: One of my friends, who attends the “Hunzai congregations”.

My Question: Brother Yaali101, who is this friend of yours by the way?? Or are you assuming that we should automatically assume that he is your good friend who is telling you the truth, mind you, you are also asking us to assume that we should also assume that you are a good ethical person telling us the truth, even though you have posted only twice. So who is this friend of yours anyway?

You said: say that the Imamat “ended” with Mawlana Sultan Muhammad Shah.

My Question: hmm....if Imamat ended with SMS, then why in the world are we discussing this issue NOW!!!! Did we not care about "hunzai congregation" for all these years??

You said: could be that he has deviated from what the fundamental are

My Question: I love this word fundamental .... mind telling me what are these fundamental you refer to here?? You know we have been circling around this site for such a long time that we don't really know what the fundamentals are, but you sir with just two postings know what the fundamentals are, perhaps admins should close this site and give you the keys so you can all teach us what the fundamentals are. How about that?

You said: If you remember Izazil was also very educated

My Question: Just wonderful, wonderful indeed. I love when we make comparision of any person with Azazil, the books he read, and how knowledgeable he was. Wonderful isn't it? Now let me remember, when is the last time we used that word?? ahha, it was used for Akber Ali Mehrally. But you just used it here! hmm....are you suggesting that there is a new excommunication farman coming over soon?? I think you are, feel compelled to take a side with with Allah, haan?.

You said: I believe that the statement MHI made could mean

My Question: Do you believe or do you believe? Or could it be or it could? Which one is it?

You said: Please, respect everyone else’s beliefs

My Question: Do I even need to ask a question here?? I think not.

YAM curious2,

You seem to assume that since I have only posted twice on this board means that I am not trustworthy, or that my opinion is not as credible as anyone else’s. Well, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. The reason I was, according to you, “complaining” about the moderator locking the post was that I wanted to add on to that thread instead of starting a new one. Hopefully this clarifies why you think I was “complaining”. As for naming the identity of who my friend is, I will not do. Why? Because I believe it does not do justice to reveal the identity and as result him being regarded as a non ismaili. I hope in my heart that the people who I BELIEVE have gone astray will come back to the right path. Just to provide some credibility to my comments, my friend has attended these sessions for about 5 years. I recently found out about him going there and tried to convince him not to go. However, it is his choice of what to do or not do. As I stated above, all of the rebuttals to Zahir’s arguments are my opinion. I mean no disrespect in any of my comments, and if you believe that I have offended you in any way then please forgive me.

[returnOfFatimid]

YAM,
I was just reviewing posts by u guyz abt this fake issue of Allma Nasir hunzai.
I dont know abt this issue indepth, but i know something "none of you know original story of this issue".... did any one meet Allama Nasir , wat u mean by let him take his followers or references from your friends to prove any one wrong.
These kind of arguments may increase hatered among ismailies traditions. There is a group that is creating these kind of rumors and these people are doing business with ismaili community, they have nothing to do even if ismaili divide into groups. We should argu on such issues but be carefull in touching fire ......
For me Allama hunzai is nothing more then a Brushaski poet.

[Virgo2]

Hunzai is nothing but a glory seeking fool. If his followers, who are mostly unsuspecting young men, think that Imamat ended with MSMS then why did the late Imam appoint the present Imam. I have met some of his followers on the internet who have tried to convince us that Hunzai is a true leader - they lack common sense: 1. He is not from the Ahle Bayt, Mowla is and only Ahle Bayatis are allowed to lead the community, not some poet from the mountains; 2. He was not appointed in any capacity by the late Imam or the present Imam; 3. he may be learned, but so were Kadhi Noaman, Al-tusi, etc. but they never made any claim to Imamat or any leadership. 4. He ran from Pakistan because the government there wanted him. He had the best chance to prove that he was a true leader, but instead he proved himself to be a coward and his hiding in Texas.

I am glad that Admin closed the thread and hope they will close this one too because talking about him and his followers is not going to get us anywhere. Let us see how far they get. We saw how far the Kazimias, Mustelians and others got. They are still beating their chests and heads while Ismailis are happily living under the Umbrella of their Imam-E-Zaman.

Virgo2

[returnOfFatimid]

Thankx for banning this thread ..... Otherwise people would give a strong push to this issue.... here on this forum
It seems, It become very easy for a third party to divide Ismailies in to groups ...... why people simply dont ignore these kind of minor issue .... ?